Posted by: graemebird | February 25, 2007

For The Permanent Record: Getting Superpissed With Annan.

“Good German” Annan has been wiping the most innocuous comments of mine since he doesn’t have a comeback.

THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE REDUCED TO WHEN YOU COMPROMISE WITH LUNATICS.

So I left a couple of comments there and before he could wipe those two and invent an excuse of the kind that allows plausible-deniability I’ve copied them for the permanent record.

You see Annan knew that I’d whip him like Phar Lap at the mule-racing carnival if he came up with an excuse from within his own specialty.

So he went with the ocean acidification dodge which I suspect he knows very little about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>

Here it is for the permanent record, with some comments left out. But all the comments you see that have been wiped were mine:

Comment deleted
This post has been removed by the blog administrator.

Anonymous said…
The problem here is that you don’t have a justification for reducing CO2 emissions in the first place.

GMB

24/2/07 12:12 PM

James Annan said…
GMB,

There are lots of good reasons for reducing energy wastage. Of course these vary globally but Japan is heavily dependent on imported fossil fuels (therefore vulnerable to economic and political shocks) and no-one wants more smelly power stations in their own back yard.

And even ignoring climate change, only the most rabid denialist would claim that ocean acidification is a good thing.

LL re: apathy, I think this is essentially Schneider’s point – to help people make decisions that are to their benefit anyway. A bit patronising and paternalistic perhaps, but the end may justify the means and it’s hardly a radical idea (eg mandatory pension contributions, age limits on smoking). So it’s only a matter of where one thinks the line should be drawn…

24/2/07 1:02 PM

EliRabett said…
Basically what Schneider suggested is done all the time within building codes. Think low volume toilets and various wiring/plumbing rules.

24/2/07 1:33 PM

Anonymous said…
“And even ignoring climate change, only the most rabid denialist would claim that ocean acidification is a good thing.”

Well where is the evidence that this is happening and at a rate-of-change that matters?

Where is the evidence for catastrophic-global warming or that a bit of warming is a bad thing in an ice age.

And where is the evidence that it is the anti-alarmists that are in denial.

You see the whole thing is a complete crock.

And if we are to use compulsion it ought to be for things that are real and BAD.

Whereas CO2 and human-induced warming are good things and obviously so.

GMB

24/2/07 8:24 PM

EliRabett said…
GMB’s ignorance is primarily his or her problem. If GMB is going around spouting this nonsense, then in a sense it becomes our problem. GMB might take a look at this article

“Acidifying the ocean is particularly detrimental to organisms that secrete shell material made of CaCO3, such as coral reefs and a type of phytoplankton called coccolithophorids [Kleypas et al., 1999]. The ocean pH change will persist for thousands of years. Because the fossil fuel CO2 rise is faster than natural CO2 increases in the past, the ocean will be acidified to a much greater extent than has occurred naturally in at least the past 800,000 years [Caldeira and Wicket, 2003].”

and follow the links to the original work. OTOH a general chemistry course might be useful also.

24/2/07 9:18 PM

Comment deleted
This post has been removed by the blog administrator.

25/2/07 5:44 AM

Steve Bloom said…
Google Scholar could be your friend on ocean acidifcation and many other subjects, Graeme. Generally you shouldn’t expect to find a great deal of interest in spoon-feeding information to the more retro varieties of denialist.

25/2/07 8:05 AM

Comment deleted
This post has been removed by the blog administrator.

25/2/07 9:12 AM

Comment deleted
This post has been removed by the blog administrator.

25/2/07 9:15 AM

James Annan said…
“If GMB is going around spouting this nonsense, then in a sense it becomes our problem.”

Agreed. GMB, I don’t mind the occasional oddball comment, but ignorant ranting is not welcome here.

25/2/07 9:20 AM

Anonymous said…
What ignorant comment?

The fact is you cannot answer these three questions:

1.Well where is the evidence that this is happening and at a rate-of-change (of oceanic ph) that matters?

2. Where is the evidence for the likelihood of catastrophic-global warming or that a bit of warming is a bad thing in an ice age?

3. And where is the evidence that it is the anti-alarmists that are in denial?

25/2/07 10:34 AM

Anonymous said…
You keep this up Annan your reputation will be seriously damaged.

I’m getting less and less sympathy for you ‘GOOD GERMANS’ every day.

You are on the wrong side of these controversies and you should show a little more moxie.

25/2/07 10:36 AM

MORE OF MY POSTS WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT GET WIPED:

You alarmists are just going to have to stop the relentless dishonesty.

Now what does it tell you when you’ve got pages of studies.

And you can’t find one that answers the question?

Hank… YOU haven’t answered the question.

Annan… Don’t encourage these people.

And Hank and the rest of you can stop acting like children.

Now if you go to answer all three questions you will find that there is something amiss here.

Thats because the leftist CO2-hysteria is all a hoax.

Now if it weren’t a hoax you’d be able to answer the questions and that would be the end of it.

26/2/07 1:52 PM

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

More posts logged from another thread (for the permanent record):

Anonymous said…
Why on earth would you want to buy offsets?

Ecology-Church-Indulgences?

CO2 is a postive externality and obviously so.

Have you forgotten that we are living in the midst of a brutal, pulversing, ice age?

3/3/07 7:18 AM

Lab Lemming said…
Hey anonymous,
Did you actually click that link before commenting? It has nothing to do with CO2.

As for the current climate, are you, like, a stylinodon or something?

3/3/07 10:51 AM

Anonymous said…
Attempt not to be an idiot will you Lemming.

Did you have a point?

No I don’t think you did.

The fact remains, and your stupidity cannot deny this fact….. that we are in a brutal and pulverising ice age.

That is the central fact in this debate.

The starting point of the debate.

Its the Alpha and almost the omega of this debate.

And so it remains something of a mystery as to why Annan feels the need to appease the lunatics and pledge to make offsets.

3/3/07 1:49 PM

James Annan said…
Good grief. What did I do in a past life to deserve Graeme Bird’s (or whoever it is) undying attention in this one?

Given the point-missing stupidity, I think I’ll leave the comments up for now. It didn’t feel too brutal today up in the mountains after Tokyo’s first ever snow-free winter since records began.

3/3/07 6:37 PM

Lab Lemming said…
My nameless friend,
I actually enjoy stupidity. If you don’t believe me, google “Thermodynamics of Hot Chicks”.

Personally, I’m a big fan of ice ages. That’s one reason I work for people who study the geochronology of Neoproterozoic diamictites. I plan on retiring to Callisto. But if you think that returning us to a Cretaceous hothouse would provide a climate more suitable for your personal beliefs, by all means buy a bigger car, leave your lights on all night, and turn the heater in your pool up to 95 degrees. It’s your life, mate.

James, congratulations to you and Jules on the new contracts.

3/3/07 9:24 PM

Anonymous said…
We are not moving back to any Cretaceous hothouse. Not for many millions of years.

Not unless you can wrench whole continents clockwise and anti-clockwise to free up the ocean circulation.

It will be all we can do to avoid another white death holocaust.

Now the two of you tell me truly:

What is it with your WRONG-WAY-CORRIGANISM?

Well might you call yourself Lemming fella.

Attempt to be scientists.

Scientists seek and defend the truth and do not wimp out to the politics of the moment.

The reason that I’m giving you such a hard time James is that though you are not an alarmist lunatic the alarmist lunatics rely on you to a great extent.

And I figure its because you are willing to compromise with them.

4/3/07 9:57 AM

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