Posted by: graemebird | July 20, 2009

No Question: The Greatest Book Written So Far This Century/Bill Gaede’s Physics Book

Get hold of Bill Gaedes physics book. Debt or no debt Get hold of Bill Gaedes physics book as soon as you can.

Its an extraordinary achievement.

On the surface of things its an attack on modern high physics. But its a great deal more than that. It goes right back to the early days of mathematics and identifies certain mistakes and inconsistencies that have been built and expanded on…. leading to the mess that is todays mathematical-physics orthodoxy. On top of that its a tour-de-force in the field of EPISTEMOLOGY. Regular readers will know that I have a rather bighead view of my own status in terms of what I think is good and bad epistemology.

My main focus is on convergence. Convergent evidence. Convergent verification. Convergent falsification. And the other side of it for me its the idea that we must build and develop a number of paradigms in parallel. That we must always avoid the curse of the lone paradigm. Another thing I tend to emphasise is the idea that the history of a subject is nine-tenths of that subject. And that we must keep circling back over fundamental assumptions. That we don’t want to be building on bad assumptions, or bad data or just fundamentally shabby reasoning. There seems to be an inbuilt bias of the qualified to just go charging ahead and never apply Williams razor. William of Ockham. If not William, Son of Gaede.

Well Bills magnificent book does not detract from these prejudices. But what he shows is just with what seriousness we ought to go about nailing down definitions with. Certainly when it comes to maths and physics. But perhaps later on in other areas as well. Bill Gaede is a much better scientist than the people that are generally worshiped in the field. And far more thorough. I say worshiped because this is part of the problem. Bad science is usually backed up by the cult of personality. And to be fair some of these personalities were authentically smart guys. But almost everyone makes mistakes. And even if there are those who don’t we cannot proceed with science on the basis of the cult of personality.

Now a word on the title of this book. The Greatest book so far written this century is called “Why God Doesn’t Exist”. Friends and people I admire of religious faith ought not let this title put you off . Order Bills sensational book just as soon as you can get to the net with your credit card in your hand.

People of both faith and reason ought not be put off by the title of this book. Quite the contrary. This book will show you even more clearly how many people of secular orientation have made a complete hash of their attempts to affect to be creatures of reason. In my experience, by the way, Christians over the age of 40 are probably carrying the majority of the hard-core reason-memes in our community. I say this even though I myself am an atheist and many of the people I admire most (George Reisman springs to mind) are atheists also.

Here is what I’ve had to say about this sensational book elsewhere:

People. I’ve just been reading Bills major work on physics. Its just a sensation. It not just a good book its historic. It makes me realise that we don’t go over the basics enough so it appears almost inevitable that we build on error.

This book ought to be required reading for all first year college maths and physics students. It shows the attention to detail that is needed to produce sound science and not just gear that appears to work for the time being.

Bill has to be the fellow with about the fellow with about the most pessimistic worldview of pretty much anyone you would run across on the internet or elsewhere. And I must myself confess to growing pessimism these last few years. But despite this in a funny underhanded way Bills book shines a light of optimism. It seems to suggest that we puny humans just might be able to not trash our paternity but yet amend the mistakes of our forefathers.

Its such an outstanding effort. And if the rest of us could lift our act a little bit…. And emulate Bill in of course far more humble ways, then we might be able to get through despite Bills deep pessimism insofar as our prospects are concerned.

I say in our respective humble ways because after reading half of Bills brilliant book I figure the rest of us are really just mucking about.

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Responses

  1. Hi,

    I just recently came across Bill Gaede’s youtube videos and found him difficult to engage in conversation. His world view seems to be that nearly everyone is ‘idiotic’ and sheeplike. I don’t know if he’s warmly chuckling when he uses the word ‘idiot,’ but to most people that word and the perceived tone is offensive and prevents decent dialog.

    I am interested in your recommendation of his book. Can you give/discuss examples of these foundational mistakes?

    Thanks,

    Andrew

    • And example would be this notion that space is curved. Space cannot curve since space is not an object and therefore lacks shape. Objects have shape. Space is shapeless unless bounded by an object.

      When confronted like this the sycophant might claim that its space-time that is curved. But there is no such thing as space-time, never was, never will be, nor is there any evidence for such a monstrosity.

      Another problem is that the mainstream appears to have missed the fact that it has no theory of gravity. Newton had some formulas for gravity. But no theory of gravity. The special relativity version of gravity is merely ludicrous. So we are trying to move forward without a theory of gravity. But its worse than that, since the mainstream takes a “dog in the manger” approach to gravity. Not having a theory themselves they get really upset if anyone puts up a theory of gravity, or four theories of gravity, for discussion.

      We see how the mainstream is not merely mistaken. But ridiculous and offensive. Not merely stupid but negligent and irresponsible….

      … without a theory of gravity they instinctively put down concerns about the potential for catastrophe. Thus allowing the human race to remain at eachothers throats, rather than have all our efforts focused on preparing for catastrophes in a productive way.

  2. Hi Graeme Bird,

    Earlier there was a rather straightforward, if curt, response here, opposing Gaede’s theories. Obviously it got axed. I find the whole process of discourse by insult, hyperbole, censorship, contrarianism all really distasteful. Seriously, there are a few interesting points here to discuss, namely the assignment of particular theoretical models over others, but for those who haven’t graduated the politics of a 5th grade playground bullying routine I don’t really have the patience. Even if Bill Gaede has experienced this sort of bullying from a perceived ‘orthodox mathematical physics’ to act in turn is an admission of his own irrelevance.

    I’ve studied a lot of mathematics. I may be guilty of seeing things the way one who has studied a lot mathematics does, which means I *don’t* see things as one who is approaching it from the ‘outside.’ I’m comfortable with curved space for instance. I have been comfortable with this idea since age 12 or 13, when I stumbled upon Flatland. Nor am I in the business of dismissing anyone who challenges the status quo, I actually find such challenges interesting, and have been ‘outside’ in many contexts myself. But honestly, his videos are fucking ridiculous. He knows this too, it’s part of the cross he’s dragging. “Watch me make a clown out of myself, then watch me fight whoever calls me on it.” That’s how I read it.

    “Space cannot curve since space is not an object and therefore lacks shape”

    This *truth claim* calls upon common sense, maybe unfairly so, although part of his allegation is that mathematical physicists are only too quick to say their own theories don’t make much sense, right? Read Flatland, or better pick up an elementary book on differentiable manifolds. Contemplate space which is *intrinsically* curved. It’s not an easy idea, but it’s a solid one. It’s merely a “concept,” but incidentally so is shape. How do we know an object has shape? because we observe it? But that is exactly why we justify a model where space is curved, because it owns up to the theory that predicts it. Why is one recognized as obvious and common sense, not questioned at all, and the other is met with the most obstinate skepticism? I don’t understand that.

  3. Yeah I axed the Cambria response because if I didn’t cut nine tenths of his stuff then my blog would be diluted with his abuse.

    Lets go through what you’ve said in detail:

    “I’ve studied a lot of mathematics. I may be guilty of seeing things the way one who has studied a lot mathematics does, which means I *don’t* see things as one who is approaching it from the ‘outside.’ I’m comfortable with curved space for instance…..”

    Thats fine. You may be COMFORTABLE with curved space. But there is no such thing. That you can express these ideas in mathematical terms doesn’t change their non-existence in reality. Space is shapeless unless bounded by an object. Then its the object that has shape, and space is merely the hole within.

    ” I have been comfortable with this idea since age 12 or 13, when I stumbled upon Flatland……”

    Yeah I stumbled upon that as well. At much the same age. When I was a kid I would stay in the big city for swimming training and read Scientific American cover to cover. And there was the Flatland story documented. I went on to immediately extrapolate that if there was a God he could be described as four dimensional and we would be transparent to him.

    Now thats all nice for the mathematically minded. But there is no object in this universe that isn’t three dimensional. You might have a sheet of graphite that comes as close as we can imagine to being two-dimensional, but its three-dimensional also. Further to that the biology of flatland, upon sober reflection, could not work at all. And as well flatlanders could never exist. Being infinitely flat would mean not being there at all. Its not true that men could face one way and women face the other. Men and women would be blind.

    Anyone its all a fantasy. And it pertains to nothing in the real world. We must emphasise over that space has no shape and therefore cannot be curved. The upshot of this is that the mainstream is negligent, and without a rational theory of gravity. It must be understood that this is not the fault of the scientific method, but instead its the same old dysfunction of the public sector.

    “…. Nor am I in the business of dismissing anyone who challenges the status quo, I actually find such challenges interesting, and have been ‘outside’ in many contexts myself. But honestly, his videos are fucking ridiculous. …….”

    No they are just excellent. Physics at last. I’ve been a long time waiting. Thats real physics. The other stuff is just nonsense.

    “Space cannot curve since space is not an object and therefore lacks shape”

    “This *truth claim* calls upon common sense, maybe unfairly so…..”

    Hang on a minute. What is this “truth claim” jargon. And how is calling upon human reason a failing commentary? Clearly you are fundamentally programmed to ignore the truth. Just think of that response over. Its a determined response not to face reality. The reality is that space has no shape. Only objects have shape. Having no shape space cannot be curved. The opposition has not ever come up with anything which could lead us to doubt this basic reality. Its a fact. Its not merely a claim. Nor can you offer anything which could even possibly dent the total factual nature of the claim.

    “although part of his allegation is that mathematical physicists are only too quick to say their own theories don’t make much sense, right? Read Flatland, or better pick up an elementary book on differentiable manifolds.”

    I cannot say where the above is coming from. I was gifted at maths as a kid but didn’t take it further. Bill is mathematically adept. Think of what is motivating the above? You are a student of topology. I’ve seen marketing students that wanted to take over. Lately we’ve had climate science cretins thinking that they ought to make policy. Everybody wants to rule the world or so it seems. Reality precedes mathematical concepts. Mathematics is a deductive science, whose first beginnings lay in induction. When we go to maths-land its like the flipside to Plato’s land of perfect forms. Because maths-land is stripped of reality. When we think in mathematical terms we are merely putting together deductive time-saving tools. To do this we have to suck all the reality away from the numbers. We cannot then go back and judge reality in terms of mathematical norms.

    “Contemplate space which is *intrinsically* curved. It’s not an easy idea, but it’s a solid one. ”

    But it has no basis in reality. You or I may get some sort of bizzare pride in setting ourselves above the normal rung of Joe-Schmoes. We may try and deconstruct Blake in the evening, and in the following day we might think we have our head halfway around curved space. On the weekend, if brought up in a fundamentalist family, we might drink bottles of wine and gain some sort of reverie contemplating the trinity.

    Whether we think we can halfway get our mind around the concept of curved space is neither here nor there. Space is not curved. Since space is no object, it has no shape. Its a fact that space isn’t curved.

    “It’s merely a “concept,” but incidentally so is shape. ”

    The difference is that shape is a primary concept, directly relating to known reality, that reality confirmed all our waking moments, only the assumptions of the Bishop Berkely could possibly shake the total knowledge of the reality of shape, and then only possibly.

    “How do we know an object has shape? because we observe it?”

    Its is confirmed for us every waking moment.

    ” But that is exactly why we justify a model where space is curved, because it owns up to the theory that predicts it.”

    Thats incoherent. We can have a model where space is curved mathematically. We can think we’ve almost gotten our heads around such an idea, and particularly in your case where you are jumping between surface shape, and the maths that describes it. But the model is not reality. And in reality space has no shape.

    “Why is one recognized as obvious and common sense, not questioned at all, and the other is met with the most obstinate skepticism? I don’t understand that.”

    One IS reality as witnessed in all waking moments. The other is not reality, and is only a construct of human made models.

  4. This is quite good because its getting to grips with the crimes against science of the early twentieth century. Think of the foundations of mathematics. Right back to where we have two apples, and three more apples, and we find that we have five. And then we find that this works for oranges. And for sticks.

    Sooner or later induction tells us that this works for all things that are akin to eachother. We must discover this inductively. But at some point we go holus bolus over into the strictly deductive world of mathematics. Now the apple and the orange disappear. And we find ourselves manipulating numbers stripped of all reality. This is the development of tools. When maths is being fleshed out inductive reasoning is used mercilessly. But before a new field of maths is adopted, its got to be converted to a purely deductive series of rules and concepts.

    Now all of this has no reality to it. Its the development of conceptual “capital goods” as it were. Time-saving procedures and concepts that, when used properly, can help us make sense of reality. But there is no reality to the world of maths as such.

    The crimes against science of the early twentieth century, involved turning the tables so that mathematical concepts, were taken out of their proper place as time-saving tools. Here we had maths dictating to reality. Maths-mysticism as it were.

    Now this gives an enormous ego-boost to the maths-adept. It makes him feel like he is a master of the universe. And all the kids that were bamboozled at maths at high school, and in wonderment at those few kids who were maths-wizzards in class (people like me and no doubt you for instance) all take this jive seriously. They actually think that this usurpation of time-saving tools to interpret reality …. over reality itself, is on the up and up. They are fooled into thinking the maths-kids, now totally out of control ego-wise, are the last word on these subjects.

    But the real world cannot be fooled so easily. Black holes invented in the privacy of the maths-wizards bedroom, are not going to conform to the reality of massive dark objects that actually exist. Models that treat “time” (itself a derivative concept) as if it were rubber or liquid ought not be adopted by anyone interested in the real world.

    We’ve all just got to get back to reality. We have to sack the public servants or force them to find reality and not try and manipulate it in their little minds. Its extremely negligent that in the twenty first century the mainstream will not find out what gravity is. Or what light is. This is public service laziness taken to a higher plateau.

    If the public servants are haughty and arrogant in the face of the reality of their laziness and ego problems laid bare, the only solution is for us to sack them, so that they may consider their cosmic importance, lining up for foodstamps, and looking for casual work, like everyone else.

    And while they are in line and jobless, along with other mere mortals, they might consider that it is yet another unscientific model ….. ie the Keynesian model …. that has put so many people in line jobless, and their pockets full only with loose change. For the moment, if one is on the public teat, one can reject reality. But its harder to reject reality, if reality has rejected you.

  5. I think if you strip Mr Gaede of all the ridicule, sarcasm, paranoia and hostility you have something worthwhile, albeit you’ve whittled most of him away, (certainly the part that brings him so much attention). The worthwhile bit is the bit that genuinely questions long held assumptions and seeks to replace well known theory with ever more solid theory. Incidentally, his vision of being a sole outsider *because* of his challenge to established physics is a sheer fantasy. Controversy is everyday business within the institution he accuses of collusion. I’m reminded of this article

    http://discovermagazine.com/2003/apr/cover

    Let me compare Gaede’s claims to a (for all I know) fictional “scientists” who claims air is not real, just a rubbish concept. Okay, well some experiments are going to show that a model whereby air is made of sparse particles is a model which works. Is that common sense? I don’t see particles. I don’t ever observe them. Maybe I find other ways, more commonsensical ways of explaining breathing, balloons, the occasional vacuum, etc. In fact, what is the point of experimentation at all if I can just rely on the commonsensical explanation (of course I don’t know what this is yet regarding air). Maybe I just scrap the question altogether, chalking it up to stilted psychobabble.

    I don’t know what Gaede thinks of air, probably that it is a concept, since it has no shape. I think this division is suspect, philosophically pretty weak, and entirely useless. Or take Australia. Does it have a shape? Roughly it looks like what you get when you image-google “Australia,” but it has coast lines which are made of pebbles which have dints in them, and these coasts change with every measurable increment of time. Which shape is the official one qualifying Australia as an object, or isn’t it one? The same problem applies to any physical object you like. But that’s not even the extent of the problem. Every theory necessarily has idealized, somewhat inaccurate objects, since the theory abstracts some commonality among slightly different actual objects. Then the shape of an atom in any physics model will differ from any particular physical instance, if only insignificantly. The shape/concept division appeals to common sense precisely as the ‘air does not exist’ theory does. It informs *nothing* about the nature of space.

    It’s also worth mentioning that Einstein’s GR is used in the engineering and operation of satellites, so whether it makes sense to you or not that ‘space can be bent,’ it’s a theory which is better than philosophically sound. It’s actually a working theory, a useful one. It is unclear what use Gaede’s theory of “ropes” is to any real life problem. (Incidentally, it’s not common sense either.)

    This is no small point. Nor that cell phone technology is impossible without Fourier analysis. Nor that the medium we are communicating on now is an aggregate of millions of people-hours of mathematical engineering. If one insists, not on calling himself a scientist but instead “one opposed to those who call themselves ‘scientist'” (or “mathematical physicist”) then he divorces himself from the achievements of the respective field (in this case computer technology, medical technology, flight technology, etc.). And has what to oppose this portfolio? that atoms are tied together by ropes. This is what detractors mean by “ridiculous.” Not only is the theory of ropes between atoms is half-formed, but his stance–in opposition to the body of knowledge that has delivered us our modern, technological world–is incredibly foolish.

    The worst part is he knows all this, and so do you, and so do I. We are all reveling in this sport called “trolling.”

  6. On second thought, maybe the best comparison for this guy Gaede is with the Yes-men or Banksy (A+ ballsy prank artists). Unfortunately, on the level of pranks, making a bunch of shit videos on youtube espousing non-sensical, it’s a rather pathetic prank. I finally get that he’s completely insincere, even in taking his “theory” to crappy physics meetings. I don’t see the purpose, other than getting a lot of attention. D- in pranks for Gaede. What’s beneath that? prank calls? shitting on public phones? there’s a little room for him to fall.

  7. Already we are one step away from the subject at hand. I cannot get into much of what you’ve said here. Since it will become a “Gaede said this” “no Gaede meant that” sort of argument. Obviously you appear pretty angry at the challenge to orthodox silliness that Gaede represents.

  8. Yeah, that’s exactly right. Let’s not have that argument or any other.

  9. Right. You got it. You aren’t up to it. You wanna believe something irrational like the idea that space is curved…. just get going with your intensely moronic delusion. Good on you. I hope your mindless religion gives you great comfort.

  10. This is turning into a “Gaede said Gaede said” argument, isn’t it?

    • What is your point dummy?

  11. Andrew sezs:

    “Is that common sense? I don’t see particles. I don’t ever observe them”

    Junk science. I don’t see something, so therefore is not possible.

    Ever heard of floaters? Plenty of people of all ages see them. Particles in the air.

  12. When we finally get all these people sacked, so that physics can start over, physics will have to start again based on reality as it is. I like this passage by Hoppe, which I’ll post again here, since its one way to try and get through to those who are living a delusion having been brought up on modern physics. I’ll also repost the introduction to the passage I made last time:

    Sciene isn’t just about apriori thinking. And its not just about empirical investigation. We need both. But whereas its not normally possible to put together a paradigm on the basis of apriori alone, it is certainly possible to tear down special relativity on that basis.

    Special relativity cannot be true. There has been a bit of negligence from our philosophers letting the taxeating maths-boy-101 types get away with the sloppiest thinking imagineable when it comes to this special relativity. Which as I have said CANNOT be sustained on logical grounds.

    Why I thought to bring up this apriori business here is that I came across a magnificent passage by a bloke that Wayne has been talking about. That is Hans Hermann Hoppe. Just look at this summary of apriori truths:

    “Examples of what I mean by a priori theory are:

    No material thing can be at two places at once. No two objects can occupy the same place. A straight line is the shortest line between two points. No two straight lines can enclose a space.

    Whatever object is red all over cannot be green (blue, yellow, etc.) all over. Whatever object is colored is also extended. Whatever object has shape has also size. If A is a part of B and B is a part of C, then A is a part of C. 4 = 3 +1. 6 = 2 (33 – 30).

    Implausibly, empiricists must denigrate such propositions as mere linguistic-syntactic conventions without any empirical content, i.e., “empty” tautologies. In contrast to this view and in accordance with common sense, I understand the same propositions as asserting some simple but fundamental truths about the structure of reality. And in accordance with common sense, too, I would regard someone who wanted to “test” these propositions, or who reported “facts” contradicting or deviating from them, as confused.

    A PRIORI THEORY TRUMPS AND CORRECTS EXPERIENCE (AND LOGIC OVERULES OBSERVATIONS) AND NOT VICE VERSA.” (capitals added by me).

  13. “No material thing can be at two places at once. No two objects can occupy the same place.

    Whatever object is red all over cannot be green (blue, yellow, etc.) all over.”

    Graeme, sorry, but to me these statements are wrong. Material things can be in two places at once Two objects can occupy the same place. And objects can be both red and green (or other colours) all over.

    Surely you can see that too.

    • You’ve got me a bit confused on this one.

  14. So what I’m saying is a very simple idea. You have to build physics up from what we know. From what is real. We cannot be building physics up from ideas like the wrong idea that space is curved. Or with foolish ideas like ultimate velocity. Or with nonsense like the idea that time is a real thing rather than a derivative concept. We have to get rid of silly ideas like spooky action at a distance. We cannot get into this make-believe of more or less than three dimensions.

    To imagine that there is a possible universe with 2, 4 or more dimensions is to forget that we have come up with the concept of three dimensions simply as a measuring tool for reality.

  15. Well this is what I meant. For example, Ayres Rock or Uluru ranges in colour – depending on the season, time of day, weather conditions – from red to orange to green to gold to silvery gray. Its chemical composition doesn’t change but its colour does, quite dramatically, for a period of time. And its different colours evoke different responses in those who see it at these times.

    Human beings can be in two places at once. I can be present in a room full of people, listening and even partaking in the conversation and I can be somewhere else entirely in another part of my brain and consciousness. Of course, this is even more apparent when we sleep and dream journey.

  16. Right. I expect it would have been too wordy for Hoppe to have all bases covered.

  17. I often realise that I almost never see exactly the same thing twice. Whether it’s a well-known face, a garden, the street in which I live, everything shows itself anew, if you’re concentrating or thinking about it. Of course, you often only realise this intermittently, but that’s just because you’ve been distracted by everything else, as we all unavoidably are.

    But nevertheless, the more we see something we think we know, can place, describe or understand, the more we come to realise how little we have observed or known of it all along.

  18. Ithaca

    When you set out for Ithaka
    ask that your way be long,
    full of adventure, full of instruction.
    The Laistrygonians and the Cyclops,
    angry Poseidon – do not fear them:
    such as these you will never find
    as long as your thought is lofty, as long as a rare
    emotion touch your spirit and your body.
    The Laistrygonians and the Cyclops,
    angry Poseidon – you will not meet them
    unless you carry them in your soul,
    unless your soul raise them up before you.

    Ask that your way be long.
    At many a Summer dawn to enter
    with what gratitude, what joy –
    ports seen for the first time;
    to stop at Phoenician trading centres,
    and to buy good merchandise,
    mother of pearl and coral, amber and ebony,
    and sensuous perfumes of every kind,
    sensuous perfumes as lavishly as you can;
    to visit many Egyptian cities,
    to gather stores of knowledge from the learned.

    Have Ithaka always in your mind.
    Your arrival there is what you are destined for.
    But don’t in the least hurry the journey.
    Better it last for years,
    so that when you reach the island you are old,
    rich with all you have gained on the way,
    not expecting Ithaka to give you wealth.
    Ithaka gave you a splendid journey.
    Without her you would not have set out.
    She hasn’t anything else to give you.

    And if you find her poor, Ithaka hasn’t deceived you.
    So wise you have become, of such experience,
    that already you’ll have understood what these Ithakas mean.

    Constantine P Cavafy

  19. Thats an interesting one Philomena. It grabs me not for any poetic strength of it. It just sounds like wise advice. Advice of the sort I was not always able to follow. Nor does this characterise the state of mind of an Odysseus or a Hamlet. The poet seems to be saying that we ought to set ourselves forth against volleys involving slings and arrows but to be real zen cool about it. I agree with this even though I haven’t been able to live up to it myself.

    Odysseus wasn’t the least bit cool about his plight. Every minute he longed to get home. Providence or the fates threw any number of bribes at him, and yet all he wanted was to get home and put his house in order. And my goodness did he ever do that. Its a magnificent climax, when he claims back his wife, his household, and what is left of his wealth. You expect him to whoop-ass. But you don’t expect him to whoop that much ass. And yet I suspect I would do the exact same thing. Not just chase the suitors off. But lock all the doors, and let them try and talk me and the boy out of it.

    The movie which most mirrors the climax of that story is clearly UNFORGIVEN. Odysseus visits the underworld and talks to the greatest warrior of all. A man though far younger than him, who has preceded him in death. Despite Odysseus’ great physical strength, a man vastly more powerful than he.

    Achilles explains to Odysseus that it would be better to be a member of a class, almost at slave level, on earth, than to be a King in Hades. Hades is the pits or so it seems. The listener must infer that if the afterlife is so crap, then the motivation for strong measures is there. Strong measures to sort ones position out on earth. The motivation is there, to survive, and to live on some sort of satisfactory level.

    Its right about then that you can feel the momentum growing for a serious ass-kicking. Right about the time Odysseus gets quits with Hades. Particularly as Odysseus has given up a life of ease, eternal youth, and life with a certified hottie, to make the journey home to his love and his household.

    That Odysseus, on many occasions, may have regretted to some extent, making that choice, would only fuel the sort of angst, that would set ones heart to stone, when it came to accepting no compromise, wherein the reclamation of his status as man of his own house was concerned.

    In the case of Will Munny, Will gets a fever. He metaphorically takes a visit to the Underworld in that he sees his wife. His wife is in great distress and has worms eating her. Now the entirety of Will Munny’s discourse has Will’s wife as a saint of sorts. A beautiful blameless soul. Surely this off-screen character, of all people, would at least be forgiven? But no. In Wills dream she too, like all characters in the movie, remains UNFORGIVEN.

    So when Will comes back from Hades, you have to assume that he has to take the subconscious view of things, that no good works on his part, can get him good treatment after his death. And further, he is motivated by his love for his departed wife. And he may think that he owes it to her to make sure he sorts things out, and gets home to look after her kids, no matter the cost.

    If Will Munny lacks a guaranteed fair shot at an afterlife worth living, then what does he have but his pride, his loyalty to his friend, and his determination to look after his dear dear wifes children, who are also his own children too?

    So there will be no tracking down Will Munny and the Schofield kid on the planes. Will Munny will assume that anyone he doesn’t kill in the bar, will be a person he may have to contend with under the stars.

  20. The poem loses a lot of what was intended in translation.

    Unforgiven was certainly Homeric in inspiration, but then so is so much literature and painting.

    Odysseus did want to get home but he was a wanderer par excellence from both necessity and inclination. Much like us all. Interesting isn’t it than when he finally did reach home, the violence erupted again.

    The way this epic deals with violence is very telling. It’s overwhelming and omnipresent but co-exists with all sorts of other gentle pleasures and accomplishments.

  21. Right. You know I was quite old before I came to the realisation that Odysseus was really a pretty bad fellow. Not a nice guy at all. But then somehow even after realising this its still hard not to identify with him.

  22. In the end, Odysseus showed himself to be a more complex and creative person than all the gods and goddesses.

    And what we read in this epic comes from the collective imagination and wisdom of the ancient Greek people as a whole.

    This is why Homer is greater than the Bible.

  23. Bad, good, evil, sainthood. I actually don’t recognise those terms today or rather think them simplistic and not really useful. Lots of us raised and educated as Catholics with Presbyterian mothers (e.g) at a fairly young age revolted against this ubiquitous aggressive nay-saying and Manichean dichotomous bullshit about life, the universe and all it contains.

    That’s why Homer will outlast most religions.

    • Right. Not all Manichaens are equal I think. I am a Manichaen, in that I believe we are engaged in a struggle between good and evil …… and most crucially, a struggle where good does not necessarily win. Where good is losing particularly at the moment. Where good suddenly got the upper hand in the late 80’s, but this turned out to be a shockingly fleeting partial or faux-victory.

      Good not necessarily winning is putting ones Pollyanna hat on, given the times. Right now the odds are stacked in favor of evil, in much the same way as they were in Eastern Europe between the two great wars.

      There is a lot of loose talk around at the moment to the effect that the US has turned the corner and is in recovery. This is not the case. The US is still in collapse mode. Teetering between gradual collapse and free-fall.

  24. “Bad, good, evil, sainthood. I actually don’t recognise those terms today or rather think them simplistic and not really useful.”

    Phil, do you have difficulty remembering what you say from post to post? On a previous thread you said that Michael Fisk had “nothing to offer the world or the future beyond mayhem and destruction and evil”.

    (Agreed, I think there would probably be an initial boost in death and destruction under Fisk’s leadership, but in the long term things would be peachy.)

    • Fisk you are one of the few people that dwells enough on the big issues to get most of them right. But you get so many small things wrong, I’ve got to be wondering whether or not you are a committed public intellectual.

      Here you seem to refer to the right policy of slaughtering regime leadership. But I’m not so sure you have integrated this perfectly sound point of view into our current scene.

      Once you have shown your hand, that there are things that you are not prepared to do, which are necessary to win the war, then negotiations will centre on the mode of your retreat. Or at least they ought to. In general if we don’t have the stomach, or feel we don’t have the resources, or believe that we cannot take the risk, of murdering regime leadership …. then it is time to negotiate our withdrawal.

  25. By the way, Phil, did you hear the good news about the recent Victoria’s Cross winner? Apparently he’s 6’8 and incredibly brave. As the formidible Michael Fisk put it:

    “That Ben Roberts-Smith guy looks like a decent family man, and his wife is lovely. It’s nice to know, too, that he has single-handedly deleted dozens of Talib scum from the human gene pool, and also that this fact makes “Phil the Greek”….inconsolably angry.”

  26. Come on Fisk. No-one admires this fellow more than me. But there is no such thing as the Taliban. And we are really in no position to condemn these men as hard-core Taliban. What they will be is subject to the influence of their outrageously wealthy recruiters and funders. Like some yokel accidentally caught up on Barbarossa. But basically we are talking Pashtun peasants. People who will fight, with great resources behind them, but without proper training, simply because some faction of a pathetic mens dress-up club, affecting to be a royal family, is willing to pay them $10 dollars a day. rather than the $1 per day they would likely earn otherwise.

    Essentially they are being tempted into getting killed by our guys. This isn’t a powerfully productive or ethical way for us to be squandering our military largesse. We are wearing our guys down in the same way as we depreciate capital equipment.

    Few are more chauvinistically proud of our SAS than myself. But we don’t want to overstate the usefulness of our mission there. After all Iran has “turned” our mission to be one where we ensure the survival of an Islamic Republic. Much as some coterie managed to turn Operation Mongoose in such a way as to kill Jack Kennedy. Which is what any President gets when he decides to create money out of the treasury, like we all know is the right thing to do.

    • Bird:

      There’s no such thing as the Taliban?

      THATS EXACTLY RIGHT. THERE IS NO TALIBAN. THERE IS ONLY PASHTUN RECRUITS, ORGANISED BY FOREIGN REGIME INTELLIGENCE.

  27. Bird,

    The argument is usually that al Qaida is too amorphous to fight.

    THERE IS NO AL QUAEDA. WHEN PEOPLE USE THAT PHRASE THEY MEAN SUNNI-TERRORISM.

    The Taliban, on the other hand, were nearly given a seat at the UN.

    THATS WHEN THEY WERE IN CONTROL OF AFHGANISTAN YOU FUCKWIT. YOU ARE SUCH A LIAR MARK. HERE YOU CLAIM THAT I SAID THE TALIBAN NEVER EXISTED. I NEVER ONCE MADE THAT CLAIM YOU LYING CUNT. THE TALIBAN WERE THE RULING GOVERNMENT OF AFGHANISTAN. WHEN WE SAY “TALIBAN” NOW WHAT WE MEAN IS PASHTUN RECRUITS THAT WE ARE FIGHTING.

  28. Sunni terrorism isn’t the least bit hard to fight since we can track who the funders are and then shake the funders down to fear, trembling and death.

    Pastun recruits are too easy to fight. Since we can shake down their funders, blow up their holiday houses. Cut them off from foreign travel. Shoot them like dogs in the street. Blow them up in the desert, if they travel from one city to the next. Billionaires and known regime intelligence are few in number and can be slaughtered.

    But if we call Sunni recruits AL QUAEDA and we call Pashtun recruits TALIBAN then we can participate in senseless slaughter for another decade, on top of the slaughter we have been engaged in for the last decade, and there is still no reason to believe the problem will be solved.

  29. Its Vietnam all over again. Since we have lost sight of who we have to kill to end the problem. In Vietnam you could simply make sure the South Vietnamese were always fighting on Northern territory through military aid. But if you wanted to win outright, you had to successfully murder top leadership of the North Vietnamese communist party, and you had to capture Chinese territory. But they had the same sort of pretenses then as now. The same lack of clarity when it came to naming things. The VietCong was treated as an independent entity from the North Vietnamese communists. The North Vietnamese were treated as if they acted independent from China and Russia. If you harbour such make-believe then you cannot win. This is why Reagan was easily able to defeat the Soviet Union yet LBJ didn’t come close to ending the war in Vietnam.

    Now I’m not saying we have to start killing people in Riyadh or Tehran. What I’m saying is that if we aren’t willing to do so, we have no business putting our own lads at risk. And should simply try to split the country up into little pieces, and aid any non-Pashtun resistance forces who seem to act decently and whom we can trust.

  30. Mr B

    The wop and the oriental are doing the devil’s work again, denigrating fine Aussie patriots who have seen through Hebrew banksterism

    http://catallaxyfiles.com/2011/01/29/open-forum-january-29-2011/comment-page-6/#comment-160161

  31. Correct again, Mr B. The “Taliban” today are as big anad fake a bogeyman as was the Yellow Peril and the Red Menance for the Western ruling classes, above all the US, in previous eras.

    Fierce but ramshackle Pashtun fakirs (or religious leaders) have rallied tribesmen against western imperial infidels for a very long time in that region of the world. Today the US is provoking Pashtun tribesmen on the Northwest Frontier, calling these ancient people “terrorists”, though only a few decades ago their fathers were hailed by the US as “freedom fighters” battling the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan.

    The British Imperial Raj’s forces knew it was foolhardy to provoke the proud Pashtun. But the US has no such self-control. Pashtun frontier tribes – collectively now mislabelled “Taliban” by the US and much of the Western media – are understandably up in arms because they are being bombed by the US and attacked by the Pakistani army which is armed to the hilt by the US to aid its endless war in the region, setting even Pakistanis against each other.

    The Pashtun tribes of the NWFP were guaranteed total autonomy in 1947 and Pakistan’s army was formally excluded from the Pashtun tribal region. The US has pressured the Pakistani government into violating this basic provision of Pakistan’s constitution by sending troops and warplanes into the independent tribal region.

    The primary cause of the growing Pashtun rebellion in Pakistan’s Northwest Frontier Province is the US war in Afghanistan, which is rapidly spreading into Pakistan. Most Pakistanis see the Afghan Taliban and their own rebellious Pashtun as heroes fighting western domination and scorn their own leaders as working for the Yankee dollar. They’d be right.

    The US’s tactics in Afghanistan and Pakistan are now creating a bigger storm: a national revolution in Pakistan against the western-backed feudal oligarchy that has ruled it since 1947. Pakistanis are humiliated by being forced by the US to wage war against their own people under the pretext of “fighting Islamic terrorism.”

    Like the Egyptian people, one day they will rise up against their tormentors, funded by the US.

  32. Mr B

    Look at this Leftist reversal

    http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2011/01/29/end-the-rba-argues-new-book-by-chris-leithner/#comment-97807

    Shouldn’t Chris be declining fiat money in exchange for his book if we are to take him seriously!

    Comment by Stephen Kirchner | January 31, 2011

  33. The Taliban today are just a diversionary bogeyman in the new Eurasia Great Game.

    The Pakistan-based Taliban – subdivided in roughly three major groups, amounting to less than 10,000 fighters with no air force, no Predator drones, no tanks and no heavily weaponized vehicles – are concentrated in the Pashtun tribal areas, in some districts of North-West Frontier Province (NWFP), and some very localized, small parts of Punjab.

    To believe this rag-tag band could rout the well-equipped, very professional 550,000-strong Pakistani army is a ludicrous proposition. Moreover, there’s no evidence the Taliban, in Afghanistan or in Pakistan, have any capability to hit a target outside of AfPak. That’s mythical al-Qaeda’s privileged territory.

    • I never said I support the Taliban. How can I. They don’t exist in any coherent sense. And wouldn’t be a threat at all except for the fact that they were Made In the USA. And I certainly didn’t support them when the US funded them and AQ and Bin Laden to destablise the USSR and undermine a regime that had attempted to liberate women from reactionary Islamicists.

      Don’t blame me if Saudis (like OBL) and Pashtuns have gone rogue. You play with fire…

  34. The US has no sense of proportion and is driven to demonise other peoples it is in competition with in business or for resources. It’s proved it cannot simply compete fairly on the world market and prosper through legitimate trade because the profits are too low for the ruling class’s liking. And if other nations or peoples challenge its techniques and hegemony, they become enemies. The US is like ugly old JC and his cronies from Cataleprosy personified.

    Unfortunately, the Koreans and then the North Vietnamese and later the Somalis and Iraqis, Afghans and Pakistanis, and now Tunisians and Egyptians and who knows else, have figured out that it is better to fight than to surrender and that David can defeat Goliath.

    The Taliban defeated the Russians with US assistance. Some say they use the techniques of the founder of the martial art of aikido, Morihei Ueshiba.

    Let’s not forget the programs the World Bank and the IMF have implemented in both Tunisia and Egypt. These countries have been cited as “examples” of the success of the structural adjustment programs imposed by the World Bank/IMF. But all they’ve successfully done has been to impoverish the great majority of Tunisians and Egyptians while enriching Wall Street and their Tunisian and Egyptian stooges. It’s a story that any Argentinian, Brazilian or Chilean knows full well and is the reason that so many countries in Latin America have elected leaders who defy the US empire.

    Apart from military and geo-strategic issues for the US empire, the fall of Egypt and Tunisia represent a repudiation of the “Washington Consensus” from a part of the world which has, up until now, remained firmly in the grip of US and Western economic planners. Hurrah!

    • Stop the handwaving JC. It just makes you look desperate and thus even more unattractive.

      And fantasising about wreaking violence on my lovely person 1) tells all and sundry reams about your sexual preference, i.e. you either like to flog or be flogged and 2) highlights the falsity and hypocrisy of your alleged support for peace and the brotherhood (sic) of man (sic).

    • Philoshit you said:

      “The Taliban defeated the Russians with US assistance.”

      And yet further upthread you claim the Taliban to be non-existent.

      CHECK YOUR LOGIC AGAIN IDIOT. ITS YOU THAT HAVE IT WRONG. BUT I WOULD DISPUTE THAT IT WAS THE TALIBAN THAT DEFEATED THE SOVIETS.

    • All of which proves the slipperiness and ultimate uselessness of the nomenclature – Mr. B’s original and irrefutable point – except as sucker bait for chattering chimps and weenies like you fella.

  35. Mr B

    Look how low Currency Lad has sunk

    http://catallaxyfiles.com/2011/01/29/open-forum-january-29-2011/comment-page-8/#comment-160235

    Phil loves the Taliban and wants to see women and children shot dead in soccer stadiums.

    This is Bird’s best friend.

    What manner of insecurity is it, I wonder, that causes Bird to go on allying himself with this revolting human being.

    YEAH THATS PRETTY LOW ALRIGHT. AND THIS IS A SMART FELLOW. WHICH JUST GOES TO SHOW HOW FAR YOU CAN GO OFF THE RAILS IF YOU ARE NOT A COMMITTED INTELLECTUAL.

  36. As usual, I’ve won the argument again against the Catapley Lilliputians, who, er, have no arguments. No wonder they’re stubbonly on the losing side. They’re morons, as you keep saying, Mr B.

  37. “Unfortunately, the Koreans and then the North Vietnamese and later the Somalis and Iraqis, Afghans and Pakistanis, and now Tunisians and Egyptians and who knows else, have figured out that it is better to fight than to surrender and that David can defeat Goliath.”

    Few countries in Asia are better integrated into the global economy than Korea, which was incredibly fortunate to lose the Korean War, and it is predictably about the third richest country in the region. The richer countries include reactionary hold-outs such as Japan and Taiwan which, predictably again, are the richest countries in Asia. I’m glad they didn’t take your advice in the 40s and 50s, Phil, otherwise they would currently have Vietnamese-level living standards.

    “The Taliban defeated the Russians with US assistance. Some say they use the techniques of the founder of the martial art of aikido, Morihei Ueshiba.”

    The Taliban didn’t exist when the Russians were in Afghanistan.

  38. Th Egyptian uprising is especially riveting, given that the Egyptian people are openly resisting a US/Israeli client state. Everyone from Obama on down are sweating it out, for in essence these protests are also against the US (Made In The USA marks the tear gas canisters and shotgun shells littering the streets).

    The corporate tap dance between showing sympathy for the protesters and hoping that Mubarak can quiet things down is beautiful to see.

    • Indeed the US has. Precisely the point. It has bought off the 5% of the Egyptian population that earns more than a $1 a week, as a form of rent of its territory and prostitution and corruption of that elite, who has betrayed its citizens, in order to secure US/Israeli economic interests in the region. That is all.

  39. Graeme

    It’s time for a l’il victory dance from the Kamkars, one of my favourite groups. Note how martial their music is. I do so admire freedom fighters.

    From Wiki:

    The Kamkars a Kurdish family of seven brothers and a sister, all from the city of Sanandaj, are one of the leading musical ensembles in Iran today. Their repertoire ranges from the vast array of traditional Kurdish and Persian music with its poignant, entrancing melodies and uplifting high energy rhythms to the classical Kurdish and Persian classical music of Iran. The repertoire of Kurdish music is richly diverse and deeply-rooted in the ancient history and culture of its proud and passionate people. It speaks of epic tales and wars, romantic love, and recounts ancient myths and stories of national and religious heroes, some of which date back to thousands of years to the time of the ancient Medes (the ancestors of the Kurds).”[1]

    Here’s the creme de la creme of Hollywood honouring them.

  40. So popular has been the US financial backing of the Egyptian police state that it’s been forced – forced I tell you – to establish a police force with a ratio of one PIG for every 35 citizens.

  41. 79 million, idiot. With around 2 million police and their hired thugs.

  42. All these rightards have got is misogynist abuse against a woman whose made mincemeat of them for going on two years now and dumbarse assertions such as the one above that Egypt has a pop.n of 85 billion. ROTFLMAO. Go give your pud another tug, weenie.

    • There’s very few hairy assed (sic – ugly Americanism) transvestites or even males these days, at least under 30. They all waxed, you bozo. Where do you live. Dubbo?

  43. 2 million police, 30% unemployment, 1 million homeless, the vast majority live on less than a $1 a week.

    Why are you an apologist for this?

    And why are you such a coward that you hide behind a stoopid moniker that tells everyone you’re the equivalent of the KKK. I’m sure you get the reference, since you’re such a Yankee whore.

  44. Of course, ingrown hairs near the spine that require major surgery and can even be life threatening are going through the roof for that demographic. Silly sausages, most women want a bit of hair to tug on. D’uh.

  45. YOU ARE AN EMBARRASSMENT CAMBRIA. THIS IS HOW USELESS YOU ARE IN SCIENCE SUBJECTS. IMAGINE FALLING FOR THAT CRETINS VIDEO. INCREDIBLE. THE IDIOT IS STILL DISPUTING THAT THE MACHINE PRODUCES TWO STREAMS OF RADICALLY DIFFERENT PH.

  46. Graeme, I actually came back here to discuss Odysseus. Politics is just a hobby.

    Now the fact is that Odysseus is the “man of many turns” which for Homer meant the much-travelled man, for his enemies the man of chameleon duplicity, and for his friends the resourceful and versatile man, ready for all emergencies.

    Odysseus is cruel yet compassionate, modest yet boastful, cunning yet straightforward, heavy-handed yet gentle, affectionate yet harsh, aristocratic yet public-spirited, sensual yet ascetic, a man of mixed motives in a constant state of ethical tension. Good and bad, if you like.

    This is why his story resonates so with you and me and is no less living today than it was 3000 years ago.

    Only one of the 12 Olympian deities had a character equally complex to he: she who in Homer was Odysseus’ constant companion and protector, and for whom the Athenians named their city as a tribute to both their involved temperaments: Athena.

  47. btw, the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is I reckon the male equivalent of a stocked up, anti-imperialist Country Womens’ Association network in regional Australia.

  48. I know you like me KKK, sorry, I only have eyes for Mr B.

    • Poor Michael Fisk, What a misery.

  49. Graeme, the adorable Mikhail Lermontov said it most succinctly:

    “A solitary sail that rises
    White in the blue mist on the foam, —
    What is it in far lands it prizes?
    What does it leave behind at home?

    Whistles the wind, the waves are playing,
    The labouring masthead groans and creaks.
    Ah, not from pleasure is it straying,
    It is not pleasure that it seeks.

    Beneath, the azure current floweth;
    Above, the golden sunlight glows.
    Rebellious, the storms it wooeth,
    As if the storms could give repose.”

  50. This is my second favourite sea-wanderers’ poem.

    “Sea-Fever”

    I must down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
    And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by,
    And the wheel’s kick and the wind’s song and the white sails shaking,
    And a grey mist on the sea’s face, and a grey dawn breaking.

    I must down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
    Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
    And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
    And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.

    I must down to the seas again, to the vagrant gypsy life,
    To the gull’s way and the whale’s way where the wind’s like a whetted knife;
    And all I ask is a merry yarn from a laughing fellow-rover
    And quiet sleep and a sweet dream when the long trick’s over.

    John Masefield

  51. Jealousy’s a curse, Michael Fisk. Get over it. Graeme and I are friends. None of your business in fact. Deal with it.

    • Good-0 take it as a complimentn you poor lonely sod, It’s obvious that’s the best compliment you’re gonna get all year.

      Lucky it came from such a superlative, drop-dead gorgeous creature such as moi. Just ask Graeme.

      Eat your heart out loser-sucker.

  52. “btw, the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is I reckon the male equivalent of a stocked up, anti-imperialist Country Womens’ Association network in regional Australia.”

    Phil, the Muslim Brotherhood advocates the establishment of a global CALIPHATE. It is by definition pro-imperialist, not anti-imperialist.

    But I’m not surprised at your difficulty understanding the difference between “pro” and “anti”, as you have famously claimed that a mass-murdering jihadist was, incredibly, “anti-war”.

  53. Graeme

    Today like Wordsworth, I proclaim:

    “Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive,
    But to be young was very heaven!”

    To freedom.

  54. I hear you sister.

  55. I love the smell of people’s power (left libertarianism) on the morning air.

  56. This one is beyond US control, methinks.

    Egypt is more than interesting. This is tectonic.

    Obama/Clinton are playing catch-up, and they won’t catch up. Mubarak was the US bulwark in the region, and this could spread to the rest of the satraps, ie, Jordan and the Palestinian Authority. There is a Wikileaks role in all this, a catalyst among catalysts, but decisive imo, beginning in Tunisia. Iraq is now lost to Iran. The encirclement of Gaza will end with Mubarak’s ouster. Hezbollah has ascended in Lebanon. The US has bogged itself down in AfPak, and the Pakistani regime is doing a high-wire act. And in the middle of it all, the prize that the US and bin Laden know in common – Saudi Arabia.

    Tunisia and Egypt just showed again that economic descent at the street level (not securities markets) and repression combined equals rebellion once the fires are lit. I promise there are sleepless nights in Riyadh and Amman as this unfolds. Very very interesting.

  57. I haven’t got the internet on at the moment. So only was able to edit out the nastier comments just now. What they are using for the fat myth??? I can only imagine that it comes from a comparison I made to Nigella Lawson. I’d only seen her on pictures that CL has posted. From the waist up. So I concluded that she was pretty good looking. And she is. A bit wide on the hips I now see. Its when I saw how large she was below the waist that I clicked as to what these dummies were on about. Well thats the only thing I can think of anyway. Basically they are just loony-toons when it comes to you. Like they feel horribly rejected or something.

    • No need to explain Graeme. I know you are the very soul of discretion. It is one of your many admirable characteristics.

  58. Those weren’t Fisks comments. They were Cambria. I only had to wipe a couple of Fisks comments. One or two of them were reasonable from a debating point of view so I left them in. Cambria’s stupidity is at a more baffling level. Here you have dozens of comments with no value to them at all.

  59. Thanks for deleting JC’s piles of excrement. Not that they worry me in the least. He has to let fly at some other female now that his daughter has fled to another country to get away from his constant sexist abuse. Guess your blog has become the depository of his sordid desires. Icky, but at least she’s out of physical reach now.

  60. “Indeed the US has. Precisely the point. It has bought off the 5% of the Egyptian population that earns more than a $1 a week, as a form of rent of its territory and prostitution and corruption of that elite, who has betrayed its citizens, in order to secure US/Israeli economic interests in the region. That is all.”

    How on earth does a poor Egypt benefit Israel?

    WHERE IS THE CLAIM THAT A POOR EGYPT BENEFITS ISRAEL. LOOK MARK. YOU’VE GOT TO BE QUITS WITH THIS RELENTLESS LYING. YOU DO THIS ALL THE TIME. READ MORE CAREFULLY.

    • Stop fishing bozo. Graeme’s in charge here. He is the Patriarch of His Blog.

      Why do all the Cataplexy males suffer from SOH bypass? You’re the most joyless, humourless gits I’ve ever seen anywhere.

  61. JC and all his aliases here are hilarious in many ways, though tiresome for you to have to delete Mr B. But then eventually they all end up in the garbage so it’s all good.

    That comment he made about his daughter’s panties was truly disgusting, but JC seems to know no bounds. I almost feel sorry for him, such a tormented soul.

    • JC you should apologise to your daughter now for your remark. Your daughter’s private arrangements with others are her business alone. You have no right to discuss them on an all-male blog in the way you did. No wonder she can’t stand the sight of you.

      • JC, you said that your daughter’s panties go up and down like the elevator in Chrysler’s Willis Tower. Incredible. You shouldn’t say things like that you know. It’s wrong. And you wonder why she fled to the US of all places to get away from you.

      • Stop abusing your daughter JC. She hasn’t done anything wrong.

        Get help.

  62. No you’re daughter’s not a trannie. And I’m not your daughter. Get a grip, JC. And remember, she’s your daughter, not a whore.

  63. Gold

    The Economic [and climactic] roots of revolution

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/egypt-revolution-cairo-food-prices-oil-pd20110201-DMRQ4?OpenDocument&src=sph

  64. Here’s some advice to prurient fathers and their yobbo mates everywhere.

    Speculating about your daughter’s sexual life in any way, shape or form, especially on a grossly misogynist blog like Catallaxy is wrong, stupid and will only alienate your daughter from you even more. Yes it is borderline incestuous of JC to have done so, to raise a laugh with his mates about his daughter, who he has told the world via that vile blog, has fled the country to get away from him no doubt.

    And a father who is incapable of protecting his own daughter from such prurient, nasty jokes, really is the scum of the earth. But then that’s not really new about Joe Cambria. He’s a disgrace.

  65. Now you know you’re all gonna end up in the gar-bag. Your comments that is. But you’re used to that, it’s why you aren’t able to comment any where else but on the smelly hard rightard site run by dumb congenital losers like Jason Soon and Sinclair Davidson.

    Graeme is a bit busy at the mo’ with several things he needs to attend to.

    There’s a few new house rules to add to the existing ones. Your comments/queries will not be answered by either Graeme or myself, unless you address me as Ms Philomena and Graeme, Mr Bird. As a rule this is what you must expect: any gratuitous insults/abuse/irrelevances or failures to understand the point or follow the argument will be dealt with as follows: we will up the ante in our response to you: you will be ignored; your comments will be typed over; your comments will be sent to that nether region of cyberspace where they surely belong.

    If you want to plea any exception to this rule at any time, we may consider extenuating circumstances. But your case will have to be made in coherent English (warning especially to the incoherent babbler, Mark Hill) and preferably poetically and with wit and flair.

    Moronic schoolboy comments will receive the full measure of our displeasure.

    • JC, is English your second language? As jarrah long ago pointed out to you, you don’t know the meaning of the most commonplace words. In your last two comments you’ve used entirely the wrong adjective or adverb several times. You’re marvellous entertainment in that respect, even if a despicable, exploitative parent to a female offspring.

  66. As is patently obvious, Joe Cambria – who obsessively posts here under endless pseuds all of which have the same IP belonging to the easily identifiable “JC” not least by his constant gross abuse and poor command of English – is massively jealous of Mr Bird, not least because of his superlative communicative skills (which I can assure all readers are verbal as well as written) and because he’s read and understood more than you could ever dream of knowing.

    You’re damaged goods Cambria. Get help and keep away from female children.

  67. Mark Hill, what I do wonder about is why you are incapable of writing one honest, coherent question or statement. Have you suffered any form of brain damage? If so, my sympathies, it would explain a lot.

  68. JC abuses most everyone and has for years across the internet. He certainly abuses vulnerable people, like Graeme, especially in the second half of last year, taunting and abusing him in the vilest language right up to his mother’s death, revelling in that because of his own sordid, envious, hateful personality.

    It’s going to make a marvellous media expose of “JC” and that blog and all the participants to this mobbing, all of whose IP addresses have been saved.

    Be warned.

    • JC, the record shows what you were writing on this blog days before Graeme’s mother died. You putrid piece of filth.

  69. And stop talking about yourself in the 3rd person, JC. You’re fooling no-one. Your whiny tone, obsessive interest in abusing Graeme, and bad English is a dead giveaway even if we didn’t need the IP number to confirm your identity.

  70. Run away JC. None of this will save your bacon, come the day.

    I can’t wait.

  71. This is an absolutely riveting. And fabulously well written and observed. I might have to take the day off tomorrow to finish it.

    http://www.amazon.com/South-Corruption-Violence-Murder-Making/dp/1424310784/

    It shows exactly how corruption, war against the poor and disadvantaged, the elderly and mentally ill, money laundering by elected officials, works in US politics.

    The author, a Lebanese American, spent 18 months in prison for bribes taken while Mayor of Miami Beach and thus is well positioned to describe his own actions and all those who he came in contact with, including some of Florida’s most powerful politicians, real estate developers and bankers.

    Given the power of some of these individuals, who are still in public life today, it is something of a miracle the book was ever published.

    Highly recommended. And film production is already under way.

  72. This is the most amazing blog I have ever encountered.

    • I think of it as applied philosophy. So one hopes its giving a lot of people some food for thought.

  73. I WAS NEVER AN ANTI-VAXER, AND WAKEFIELD WAS NEVER SHOWN TO HAVE COMMITTED FRAUD. PROVE IT.

    WITH BABIES I WOULD DEFER TO PRUDENCE EVERY TIME. BUT WHAT HAS TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED IS THAT WITH AN OLDER CHILD WHO CAN FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS, WE NOW HAVE MULTIPLE WAYS OF KILLING PATHOGENS, SO THAT SWINGS THE NECESSITY TO GET VACCINATIONS A LITTLE TOWARDS THE LESS-IS-MORE SIDE OF THINGS.

    SO FOR EXAMPLE I’D NEVER GET A TETANUS SHOT AGAIN. I HAVE THE MEANS TO GET BY WITHOUT IT NOW. AND THE TETANUS SHOT CONTAINS MERCURY. WHICH JUST SHOWS WHAT AN IFFY THING A VACCINATION IS IN 2011.

    ITS AN EXCELLENT IDEA THE IDEA OF VACCINATIONS. BUT THE PUBLIC SERVICE CAN TAKE ANY IDEA, NO MATTER HOW GOOD, AND SCREW IT UP.

    • JC, posting unreadable and meaningless gibberish such as this is not going to get you off the hook. You’re dead meat mate.

    • THATS NOT EVIDENCE CAMBRIA. EVIDENCE IS TO BE FOUND IN THE BODY OF A STUDY OR AN INVESTIGATION. IT IS NEVER FOUND IN THE SUMMARY.

      EVIDENCE IS DATA, BROADLY CONSIDERED, RELATED TO A SPECIFIC HYPOTHESIS, BY A PROCESS OF REASON. SO EVEN WHATS IN THE BODY OF THE STUDY IS NOT EVIDENCE UNTIL YOU GO TO WORK ON IT. IT IS THE RAW MATERIAL OF EVIDENCE ONLY.

      DOES THE WORD “CLIMATE-GATE” MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU CAMBRIA? HOW ABOUT THE WHITE-WASH ENQUIRIES THAT FOLLOWED ON CLIMATE-GATES HEELS. YOU THINK YOU WOULD HAVE LEARNED SOMETHING BY NOW. BUT THAT WAS NOT TO BE.

  74. “You’re lying again, you distasteful slanderer. When Bird announced his mother’s death and numerous people including JC, unless I’m mistaken, offered condolences.” parapa on February 1, 2011 t 7:03 am

    and then this:

    “Phil you tranny liar, Bird gets as good as he gives. He also had many sympathetic comments posted on here when he announced his mother had died.” Bird Flapz on February 1, 2011
    at 7:32 am

    Note how Catallaxy’s JC (Joe Cambria) in both these posts refers to the “announcing” of Graeme’s mother’s death.

    It’s not just the identical syntax which is the dead giveaway. It’s the clinical heartless crowing at another’s sorrow and loss which is putrid, yet sadly all anybody would expect from a cowardly, hate-filled, abusive man such as “JC” of Catallaxy.

    Ever read William Golding’s “Lord of the Flies”? A brilliant if scarifying novel that all teens must read and adults re-read at least once.

    Catallaxy’s “JC” is Jack Merridew to a tee.

  75. The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt main appeal for Egyptians who support it comes from the plans it offers for right living supported by institutions that address immediate problems. Health care is one area the MB is very active. It’s established around 30,000 medical facilities in nongovernmental mosques. Why such services are vital is because of their growing absence or lack as a direct result of the economic deregulation, privatisation and fiscal constraints of the regime under the hammer of WB/WTO/IMF dictates. So neoliberalism as commonly understood by folks, its policies/institutions, are absolutely the source of the economic stress that’s been the precondition for these outbreaks in Egypt & elsewhere.

    • Right. But it has to be assumed that it is capable of delivering this welfare function on the grounds that it is likely assisted by oil money. That is to say by foreign regime intelligence. In any case, as poorly as our wars have been conducted on cost-effective grounds (cost in both blood and money) it is not thereby to be assumed that they have been entirely ineffectual. There can be little doubt that the jihad has lost a lot of its fervor for the time being. And so there is a very good chance that things will go better for the Egyptians than they did for the Iranians after their revolution.

      It was a night and day difference. The people of Egypt have been exemplary in their conduct. And good on the old man for stepping down. What can you say but Bravo.

      • Graeme sezs:

        “But it has to be assumed that it is capable of delivering this welfare function on the grounds that it is likely assisted by oil money. That is to say by foreign regime intelligence”

        Right.

        It’s a form of economic dependence of the non-low-oil-producing ME nations on the richer oil-producing ones which partly accounts for the rise in Islamic fundamentalism in both. The wealthy oil-producing states of the Persian Gulf have strong traditions of religious fundamentalism with economies based on the exclusion of women from paid work and less formal equality in general. This in turn contributes to the endemic failure of meaning, community and polititical effectiveness of all these nations dating from their colonial era creation.

        The aid of the richer oil nations to the MB in Egypt and elsewhere has the effect of strengthening the very religious education which has so distorted the social place of women that in turn undermines the possibility of a healthy body politic for the foreseeable future.

        Democratic states in the ME are an existential threat to Israel and that’s why the US and Israel want to see them remain poor, authoritarian, and internally divided by ethnic and/or religious entities. Islamic fundamentalism and its problematic relationship to women’s status has direct repercussions on nation building and state development. A strong national identity can be seriously undermined by aggressive, exclusionary, bigoted, kin-based, ethnic or religious institutions and forces where different beliefs about the family, women’s bodies, e.g. cause conflict and act as centrifugal forces undermining a cohesive, healthy nation-state.

        In psychological terms too, you could say that women in Islamic (and other) fundamentalist political cultures have come to represent an “inner sanctum”, or container, of national, ethnic or religious identities, a cultural resource and marker against Western imperialism or other religious or ethnic traditions.

  76. “So you see these fucking grasshoppers eat the DDT in this story. And this fucking frog eats this motherload of DDT which is eternal. At least if you soak it in fat. And then the fucking trout comes along and he cannot stop eating frogs, complete cunt that he is. Frogs minding his own business and the trout just comes up and eats him like he has nothing better to do.”

    Hang the Trout!

  77. Bird,

    Speaking of curved space. How do you think an ant walking on a watermelon conceives of geometry. He would not come up with the idea that parallel lines never meet as he knows well that if he follows the stripes of the watermellon they all come to a point. Similarly when he draws a triangle on the watermelon he sees that it has more than 180 degrees. This is because he lives in a curved space.

    How do you know that we are not the ant but in three dimensions rather than 2.

    • Forgive me for butting in Mr B. And I look forward to your answer to this excellent question.

      My take is that other animals recognise or care about basically only two classes of objects – the edible and the dangerous. Of course, the definition of “edible” needs to be stretched here. Domesticated animals “love” us because they associate us with all forms of nourishment much like those we enjoy, with some major qualitatively advanced cerebral exceptions.

      Perception is not a passive reception of externalities. It’s an active process of selection. And it’s an imposition of patterns. All animals’ nervous systems are built in such a way as to automatically sift out from an immense confusion of data, those elements that are biologically useful.

      Man (sic) does not live by watermelon alone to answer Steve’s question. We need to know more than what an ant needs to know.

      Frogs e.g. have mechanically very good eyes. But they see only in limited ways, in the main, they see what moves. If an object in a pond doesn’t move it disappears from the frog’s vision. When it moves, the frog sees and tracks it if it is edible.

      What a strange frog universe, eh? A continuous emergence and disappearance of objects.

    • The ant can think what he wants. But he won’t find anything worthwhile out about the universe, unless he concentrates on reality.

      • Don’t talk crap Cambria. There is no ant. And if there was his pitiful mindgames do not affect reality. lts like this stupid deal about men riding light waves. Focus on reality.

      • Ah yes, but that’s the whole point: the vastly different universes in which creatures of different classes and species live. It’s a fascinating topic Graeme cos it makes you realise how extremely arbitrary our idea of reality is, though our idea of reality is admittedly greater than that of even the highest (for want of a better word) of other animal species.

        Think of it this way. What sort of world would a creature of more effective, more developed senses than ours, a better mind than ours, live in?

      • Good point. And the high hopes are not baseless. To the contrary. The ant can disappear trees. Hell even mountains can be broken down into sand and pebbles by natural forces . We don’t know how to do this in quite the same way and nor do we need to. But it is a reality.

      • Gee thanks for the edification of my comment Phil. What would Mr Bird do without you help.

      • For the ant though, these are the relevant pieces of reality as he navigates his way about the world. This is what he sees and observed a curved space where if he walks in a straight line he comes back to where he was.

        Now along comes a fly who has had his wings pulled off by a cruel child and the fly says to the ant no you are just on a round object in 3 dimensional flat space, I know this as I used to be able to fly around. The ant says no prove it I’ve walked all over this watermelon and I know how geometry works.

        Should we go with ants view or the fly’s, when all we can measure on the watermelon’s surface is consistent with a curved geometry.

        IT HARDLY MATTERS WHAT THE ANT THINKS, SAYS OR SEES. WE OUGHT TO GO FORTH ON THE BASIS OF SCIENCE AND NOT BE DECEIVED BY ANTS, HYPOTHETICAL OR OTHERWISE. WE ARE IN THE ANTS POSITION AFTER ALL. AND SOMEHOW MANAGED TO SORT THE MATTER OUT.

  78. The other point of course is that charity services whether delivered by religious orgs, philanthrophists, bourgeois women’s groups or whoever are an infantilisation and patronisation of the poor and a diversion from focus on the the necessity of the state – as a healthy state that fulfils its ideal socially cohesive function – to oversee and direct these functions for the good health of the entire body politic.

    • Circular gibber jabber.

  79. It’s a blog dear. Not a dating site. If you want exclusive company I suggest you go elsewhere.

  80. Your words not mine, BeatLabGob.

    Do you have anything further more interesting to say or have we exhausted your entire intellectual repertoire already, hmm?

  81. Jeezus, we’ve got a live one here, Graeme. At first I thought he had a brain. Looks like I was mistaken. Oh well, hope springs eternal.

  82. Ants can move trees. It’s a very important point.

    In much the same way people can remove dictators.

    That’s why I’m a leftist.

    • Yes, in a way. We’re all part of nature, and we’re that part of nature that’s developed consciousness and can reflect on and interrogate itself. Be self-aware to an extent. Develop and attribute meaning which is culture and so on.

      Small things can do majestic things and majestic things can be brought low and dispersed to the four winds.

      Ain’t it grand.

  83. Heh, I do like talking with you. But if you want to continue I do ask one thing. Change your name. As someone who has been literally severely beaten in the past, I do find it upsetting.

  84. Try being genuine, Beater. It goes a long way. And don’t abuse me or the host. That only invites retribution. I’m sure you understand.

  85. Graeme, I think you’re being a wee bit dismissive of ants. There’s lots we can learn from ants. And bees and wolves and wilderbeest and birds, especially birds. I bow my head to them all.

  86. Have you talked about confusing reality with knowledge? Now the idea of relativity could be acceptable if relativists acknowledge that they are talking about only what observer find out not what exactly is in reality. That is if two observers are contradictory, then eigther one of them is wrong or both of them are wrong. Both can never be right It is this fundamental logic that SR violates

  87. Its far worse than you think. Its an international public service scandal. Like blue-hats raping black sheilas or the oil-for-food scheme/scam. There are no observers. The observers themselves are a stupid fantasy. These “observers” are stupid fantasy little men riding on the wave of a fantasy ray of light. Or fantasy twins racing away from eachother at almost the speed of light and yet fantasy-observing each-others wrist-watches. The whole thing has nothing to do with science. The whole experiment of state financing of science has gone horribly wrong.

    The whole thing is based on a mystical fantasy of the observer creating rather than observing reality. This is the witch-doctor making a comeback and it has nothing to do with science. When you ask these rebels (against the scientific method) what the underlying reality is, in one of their observer-fantasies …… they will attempt to mock you as wanting to go for “A GODS-EYE POINT OF VIEW”

    The only way to fight this is to understand it for what it is …. the wages of stolen money.

    I’m not a hard-hearted man, nor an absolutist. I can see that its a fair point of view to want transfer payments, and perhaps to tax bigshots and huge businesses to stop a ruling class from forming. But the fact is that hoping to create good things from stealing money tends to backfire.

  88. Look at what an idiot that stupid wop is …. The best large company in the world is Apple Computer. But look at this dim-witted wops version of what it takes to be a good company. Get in with the Fed and the politicians and make heaps of loot SOLELY FROM STEALING FROM THE PUBLIC.

    “It pains Bird to see it in print whenever I suggest that Goldsack is perhaps the best most talented firm in the world.”

    Goldman Sachs has almost no legitimate or productive business. Its just a front-man operation for thieves.

    • THEY DON’T PRODUCE WEALTH AND THEY ARE FRONT GUYS TO A STEALING RACKET. OF COURSE THERE IS A GREATER POWER BEHIND SACHS. SACHS IS TAKING THE HEAT FOR THE GREATEST AMOUNT OF NON-STATE STEALING EVER SEEN IN THE HISTORY OF MAN.

      THE IDEA IS IF WE MURDER THEM ALL THE MAJOR CULPRITS WILL GET AWAY SCOT FREE.

      GOLDMAN SACHS ONLY STEALS. THEY ARE NOT PART OF ANY FREE-ENTERPRISE WEALTH CREATION.

  89. MESKI
    Posted Monday, 21 March 2011 at 3:22 pm | Permalink
    Yes, Bird, and I’ve seen avalanche photodiodes detect single photons… (which you claim do not exist) You see, I used to work in that field.

    BIRDSNEWWORLD
    Posted Monday, 21 March 2011 at 4:49 pm | Permalink
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    “Yes, Bird, and I’ve seen avalanche photodiodes detect single photons…”

    No you haven’t. You’ve seen a machine produce a read-out. No-one has ever detected a photon. Nor will they ever do so.

    BIRDSNEWWORLD
    Posted Monday, 21 March 2011 at 4:52 pm | Permalink
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    “The basic model of BB appears to give a framework on which to begin understanding the history of the universe. One of the concepts was the heat balance.”

    What exactly can you do with this false, public sector, framework? The general principle is that the truth informs us and is a guide to action, whereas bad theory gets in the way.

  90. Have you heard about Alexander Franklin Mayer’s cosmology, Greamebird? His book might prove much deadlier for the mainstream physics and Big Bang idea than Gaede’s. That blow comes right from inside relativity and is delivered in the language of maths so if tested to bring results would be much harder to dismiss and ignore.

  91. Thanks for the tip. But the problem is this. The mainstream ideas aren’t held there through lack of total proof against them. They are held there by hammering in strategically selected faux-axioms. We won’t get change until we get rid of the funding superstructure, and the shadow government itself.

    I can prove the big bang wrong in a 2 minute discussion. And the falsification is total. But if you are funded by bigshots you simply do not have to be logical or to bow to logic.

  92. “I can prove the big bang wrong in a 2 minute discussion.”

    Go on then, prove it, show the falsification. Be sure to stick to the science though, pseudoscientific bullshit doesn’t cut it in the real world.

  93. If the big bang was true when you looked at the universe the “further back you went in time” the more you would know about the direction of where the original point was. But what we find instead is that the galaxies go back to this alleged dawn of time in all directions.

    Thats a total falsification right there. I’m always knocked out be the stupidity of people like you, and how sheeplike the human race is.

  94. That’s not falsification

    YES IT IS AND ITS TOTAL. NO MATTER WHAT DIRECTION YOU LOOK IN YOU CAN GO BACK ALMOST AS FAR AS THE ALLEGED AGE OF THE UNIVERSE. WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY IMPOSSIBLE IF THE THEORY WAS TRUE.

    The cosmic microwave background radiation of course has confirmed that the big bang happened.

    NO THATS IRRATIONAL. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO LOGIC VALUE TO THAT CLAIM WHATSOEVER. ITS NOT AN ARGUMENT ITS SIMPLY A MANTRA FOR SHEEPLE. THE BIG BANG PROPONENTS DID NOT PREDICT THE TEMPERATURE OF DEEP SPACE. IN THIS CONTEXT WE NOTE JUST HOW EASY IT IS TO FOOL PEOPLE BY THE SIMPLE USE OF MANTRA’S THAT ARE MEANT TO BE ARGUMENTS BUT THAT HAVE NO LOGIC VALUE WHATSOEVER.

    THE COSMIC BACKGROUND RADIATION IS AS A RESULT OF THE ACTIVITY OF STARS. AND THE ELECTRIC FIELDS THEY PRODUCE. THAT ENERGY HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE. THAT IT SETTLES DOWN TO AN EVEN TEMPERATURE SOUP OUGHT TO TELL THE PUBLIC SERVANTS SOMETHING ABOUT LIGHT. BUT THE PUBLIC SERVANTS ARE DETERMINED NOT TO LEARN ANYTHING NEW ABOUT LIGHT.

  95. NO SORRY. THE FALSIFICATION IS OBVIOUS AND TOTAL. THERE IS SIMPLY NO GETTING AROUND IT. WE WOULD KNOW THE DIRECTION OF ORIGIN IF THERE WERE A BIG BANG. THE BANGERS ARE PLACING US BACK IN THE CENTRE OF THE UNIVERSE AND ARE TOO STUPID TO REALISE THAT THEY ARE HALVING THE ASSUMED AGE OF THE UNIVERSE EVEN TAKING INTO ACCOUNT ALL THEIR OTHER FALLACIES.

    THERE IS NOT THE SLIGHTEST SCRAP OF EVIDENCE FOR THE BIG BANG. NOT A SCINTILLA. NOT THE MEANEST MEASLY MORSEL.

  96. Damned triangulating Jew Sinclair wiped my only opportunity to do an about face and admit that Daddy Dave had a point. I was being unnuanced about the question of science fraud. And I was hoping to backtrack a bit. But Sinclair wiped all my comments.

  97. blocked elsewhere:

    Steve I suspect you are mis-reading these people. They would be smiling if they managed to sell out. On one level they have clearly blown it. Since if they managed to cut 200 billion per year with no tax increases prior to the US going into default, they would have been in a position to cut a great deal more, and dissolve a string of agencies, with some strategic and compassionate tax cuts to boot, should they have bargained hard far beyond the point of official default.

    If there are no department closures thats a sellout. Promised cuts to this and that are futile without full-blown department closures.

  98. The Republicans have sold out. They have struck a deal. Which means there will be more debt, higher spending than otherwise, and therefore the wealth destruction that the higher spending brings.

    Had they driven hard such that no deal was struck until well after default then there was a chance that the overspending problem could be solved. This is a terrible failure thanks to the Rhino’s and the establishment wing. This kicks the can down the road. So that the next time the debt level has to be raised, matters will be in a worse state and the poor economic conditions will continue on at least until then.

  99. “The United States has pulled back from the brink of an economic crisis” says the sheeple on the TV. But the reality is that the US has decided not to get out of the economic crisis they are currently in.

    This plan will now get watered down by the Senate. A black lady, member of the public correctly and succinctly describes the deal:

    “Its like they are putting a band-aid on a cancer.” The analogy could not be better. And the only chance to get out of the greatest depression was to bargain hard well beyond default.

  100. Stealing from the poor to give to the rich. The Feds are going to steal a million dollars from us and give it to Tiger Woods.

    I don’t find this criminal behavior the least bit fucking amusing.

  101. Someone asked about a flat insect moving around a ball doing geometry? He said the insect cannot conceive of strait parallel lines never intersecting. Then extrapolated that we can be such an insect but in 3 D hypersuface!

    1. If the flat mathematician can’t conceive straigth lines never intersecting because of lack of such an experience, then you admitt that observation preceeds conceptualisation, which I agree, but then tell me how then you conceive of a 4D metaspace without such a prioexperience?
    2.’parralel lines’ have only meaning as a visualisation from above to the piece of paper! The guy confuses the MEANING of parallel lines with the PROOF that the lines are indead parallel! parallelness is meaningless to poor flat mathematicians even if they are inhabiting a flat sheet. We have only intersection and failure of intersection! They cannot even do geometry with such limited visualisation! and in the same way we can’t extrapolate anything in solid land to metasolid land such as ‘curvature’ perharps they are meaningless in hypersolid land! We need first to be a flat mathematician to grasp whether there is something meaningfull in flatness which is meaningless in solidness of which it is, as oposed to how it deceptively look, imposible to imagine experiencing in flatness, or even such a (non)existence as it is to imagine an experience in hypersolid land! Therefore such analogies are useless!

  102. Yet graem, the above visualisation problem is not the main reason why I regard GR as nonsense. The main problems are two;
    1. Bringing in confusion on an otherwise clearly defined concept of space.
    2That time is the alleged fourth dimension differing with space by mere orthogonality

    It goes like this;
    1.I must conceive of space as a ‘wall’ yet I am not allowed to ask about the one side and the other side of it! This is because ‘side’ is already space! Clearly, there is an inbuild contradiction-‘there is no outside of space’ (for ‘outside’ is squarely well ‘contained’ within the concept of space!). If then ‘outside space’ is its own contradiction, nothing physical or otherwise has to prevent me from moving ‘outside of space’. But in GR, this is exactly how I must conceive space, as an object preventing me from escaping to its own outside! This is a ridiculus fallacy of suggesting a physical mechanism of preventing a logical absurdity from happening!
    2. ‘The canvas of space time’ is holding us so that we ‘stay’ in the present moment and location! Two subproblems;
    a.)By analysis, it is logically absurd to move through time! The guys hence are again suggesting a physical mechanism of preventing a logical absurdity from happening!
    b.)By analysis, ‘moment’ is not where an object can BE in but just when events HAPPEN! No ridiculus mattress need to prevent mecury from BEING in yesterday!

    The ridiculus explanation of gravity goes like this;
    the space time mattress goes in one direction towards nowhere called ‘future’! The inertia of objects makes them want to remain in nowhere called ‘present’! But space, preventing them from going nowhere, forces the object rather to roll to the massive object! Physically GR is total nonsense!

  103. Excellent comments.

  104. Profound, Kirui! I am wondering, how far back should we go when we overthrow the public servant overlords, burn their texts, and set up our coconut leaf hut from where to conduct real physics? non-commonsensical physics theories didn’t start with GR. The ridiculous explanation that the earth resembles a marble needs uprooting. I mean, who amongst us has seen free moving objects cling to the underside of a smooth ball? It’s such lofty rubbish! Down is the direction things fall, by definition. And “down” doesn’t point to the center of a big marble; it points in the same direction, always. Every moment of every day we witness this. Oh, some say they’ve seen photographs… from outer space… Well, I’m blind, so I don’t have a lot of faith in “photographs,” and just what the Hell is “space”? I mean, how can you have “no air,” when air is just the absence of liquid or matter? When I move something solid, so that nothing should exist where it was, there is what I call “air,” which means I can’t feel anything there. The very notion of space is non-commonsensical and hence, by our down-to-earth sound reasoning, is nonsense! In fact, I would dare anyone to find a smidgen of proof (that would convince a blind man, with his fingers in his ears) that the earth is round.

  105. Is there a point to all this?

  106. Sure, to reforge physics in the furnace of common sense, as you’ve discussed above throughout this post. COMMON SENSE, Mr. McCarthy!

    Do you want me to spell out the mockery??

  107. Well we want a real physics, based on science and evidence. We want that as opposed to the fantasy-physics that we have now. But what the scientific method came up with may well seem counter-intuitive at first.

    Comparative advantage is counter-intuitive. So much so that Australian economists have completely misunderstood the concept and have adopted a warped version of it.

  108. I mostly deal with matters that are counter-intuitive, rather than merely commonsensical. My beef with special relativity isn’t its couter-intuitive nature. My beef is that its wrong, a fantasy, unscientific, and more than usually idiotic.

    • “My beef with special relativity isn’t its couter-intuitive nature. My beef is that its wrong, a fantasy, unscientific, and more than usually idiotic.”

      I don’t know how to respond to this other than to suggest that you get help. While sheer ignorance alone is not usually a crime, the egomaniacal fervor that also accompanies your writings promotes it to an internet felony of the second kind.

      If it’s any consolation, I had a good laugh reading some of your comments, although admittedly I was laughing at you. Have a good day-

      • No the fact is special relativity is rubbish. You won’t be able to find a shred of evidence for it. Its fundamentally irrational, mystical, and internally incoherent.

        Going over some prosaic notions to do with the reality of velocity being a relative concept, then spinning on ones head and presenting an entire philosophy based on the idea of absolutism with regards to a single velocity, has some ways to go as a form of science. Any unbiased understanding of the way young Einstein worked would lead to the conclusion that he never really attempted to follow the scientific method. Where the mystery is is historical. How did an untenable dogma of this sort wind up getting all this publicity?

        In 2012 the entire edifice of special relativity, is held up only by the cult of personality, and relentless lying. But I would suggest that the constant promotion of bad science, has to be part of a comprehensive strategy to do with monopolizing on new technology.

      • See you are just a fucking idiot Richter. When it came down to it, turns out that you are an ignorant cunt without a shred of evidence for your faith-based beliefs.

      • Your reply is absolutely absurd. No evidence for general relativity? Have you ever used a GPS when traveling in a car? If so, then I’m sure you have an appreciation of the fact that it works because of satellites that orbit at high velocity in the Earth’s potential.

        Did you realize that there has been an measured 38 microsecond/day difference in the atomic clocks used in the tracking of the satellites on Earth versus on the satellites, exactly as predicted by computations based on general relativity effects of the curvature of space in orbit, up to the experimental accuracy of the measurements? And that this has long been known to be an issue, with frequency corrections applied to the satellite transmissions to counter this effect?

        I should note that in addition to this rather blatant example of the TESTED VALIDITY of general relativity, there is almost a century’s worth of experimental evidence for such effects, the latest being its role in explaining the “neutrino faster-than-light” story that came up a while ago.

        So I think it’s safe to say that a cult of personality has nothing to do with the success of relativity; rather, it’s the fact that it works, and has been tested to work, and to high accuracy. Questions, comments, concerns? Call 866-298-6986 and don’t forget to order a burrito and rice when you do.

      • Special relativity was not needed for the GPS. In fact the relativists had to consult a non-believer in order to get GPS to work, and then reworked their jive after the fact. I’m no expert on general relativity. I lacked the interest to learn the specifics, since it was clearly just a massive movable feast fudge factor for special relativity. All the wrong and absurd claims are made in special relativity. General relativity is excuse-making for these wrong ideas.

        Where is your evidence for the existence of space-time? For c being an ultimate velocity? For mass increasing with velocity? For gravity being due to the warping of space? (or space-time variously). For the idea that time can be stretched, compressed, warped and so forth, as if it was an object with shape.

        In every last idiotic claim you will find you are without evidence.

      • “Did you realize that there has been an measured 38 microsecond/day difference in the atomic clocks used in the tracking of the satellites on Earth versus on the satellites, exactly as predicted by computations based on general relativity effects of the curvature of space in orbit”

        There has never been even the tiniest scintilla of evidence for any facet of special relativity. You are clearly a moron. Where was it ever said that those clocks work the same in a gravitational environment, as they do in space? When was THAT experiment carried out to test the difference? When was it shown that they would work the same going WITH the earths orbit versus against the earths orbit? What about allowance for acceleration? When were those experiments conducted?

        Can you even so much as find any evidence that they work the same under all circumstances. This is before YOU FUCKING MORON we must understand that differences in velocity CAN NEVER EVER EVER account for time differences. Since velocity is a relative concept. It cannot be an absolutist concept and a relative concept at the same time.

        There was never any reason to believe that these clocks would work the same in all circumstances. Its all lying. Including the experiment you referred to. Ten years the data stayed hidden.

    • LOLOLOL you’ve been watching the X-Files too much. “ALL LIES, THE EVIL SCIENTISTS HAVE BEEN COVERING UP EVERYTHING FOR THE PAST 100 YEARS”! That’s basically what you sound like now.

      The fact that you have to resort to incoherent accusations that the clocks are all wrong, that the clocks can’t work properly in space, that the clocks obviously won’t work in orbit, etc is baffling.

      NO NO. CLOCKS WORK DIFFERENTLY IN SPACE. THATS WHAT THE DATA TELLS US.

      In case you didn’t know, GPS satellites use onboard rubidium atomic clocks. Atomic clock oscillation frequencies are not affected by external gravity to any nontrivial degree because they operate based on nuclear hyperfine transitions, which simply aren’t affected by gravity unless you’re talking about something crazy like a black hole or something.

      NO THEY ARE AFFECTED. THATS WHY YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE ADJUSTMENTS FOR THE GPS

      If you don’t believe me then I suggest you get help because this has in fact been tested in space.

      And “WITH the earths orbit versus against the earths orbit?” I don’t even understand what you’re saying, the satellites are in geosynchronous orbit, remember?

      RIGHT. THEREFORE UNDER SPECIAL RELATIVITY THE ADJUSTMENT OUGHT TO HAVE BEEN TRIVIAL. BUT THEY HAD TO ADJUST IT JUST THE SAME BECAUSE THE CLOCK IN SPACE WORKS DIFFERENTLY THEN THE CLOCK ON THE SURFACE.

      There is an entire page of Wikipedia devoted to hundreds of experiments verifying special and general relativity. Are these all lies?

      THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE VERIFICATION OF SPECIAL RELATIVITY. WHEN HAS THE EXISTENCE OF SPACE-TIME BEEN VERIFIED JUST FOR STARTERS. NEVER.

      Did you know that Sagnac light interferometry is actually used in high-precision inertial guidance systems to measure angular velocity, and moreover that the Sagnac effect would not work if special relativity (and thus general relativity as well) was false? If it’s all lies, why do sensors that operate on Sagnac interferometry still function properly?

      NO IT WOULD STILL WORK IF EINSTEIN HAD NEVER BEEN BORN. BUT PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE FOUND OUT WHY IT WORKED.

      T

  109. Why do you continue to waste your time arguing with random people on the internet?

    Bill Gaede is a stubborn fool whose predictions have already failed to come true (he predicted global economic collapse to happen before 2010, it’s now 2012 and nothing of the sort has happened).

    WELL HE WASN’T FAR SHORT. THERE IS GRAVE PROBLEMS IN THE US AND EUROPE. THE US IS IN SOMETHING OF A SLOW COLLAPSE. BUT THEN I’D HAVE TO FIND OUT WHAT HE ACTUALLY SAID. HIS EXCELLENT CONTRIBUTIONS ARE IN PHYSICS. NOT IN ECONOMICS. I’VE ALWAYS TOLD HIM I DISAGREED WITH HIM IN ECONOMICS. I SAID I AGREED THAT WE WERE IN SERIOUS TROUBLE, BUT THAT WE COULD AT LEAST THEORETICALLY SALVAGE THE SITUATION. HIS OUTLOOK MORE OR LESS MANDATES COLLAPSE NO MATTER WHAT.

    He makes hypotheses (e.g rope hypothesis) that make absolutely no sense at all. ACTUALLY ITS THE ONLY HYPOTHESIS THAT MAKES SENSE. His rants against so-called “mathematical physicists” border on paranoia. NO THAT IS NOT RIGHT. THE PUBLIC SECTOR IS ABSOLUTELY FUCKING USELESS Light is a wave – everyone already knew that. NO THEY DID NOT. STOP LYING. THEY KNEW NO SUCH THING. DON’T MISREPRESENT THE PUBLIC SERVANTS, FOR YAY THEY ARE FUCKING USELESS AND THIS IS NOT SOMETHING TO MISLEAD THE PUBLIC ABOUT.

    He hasn’t provided anything of value to the world NO THAT IS COMPLETELY FUCKING WRONG. HE’S ALMOST SINGLEHANDEDLY SHOWN THE FIRST FEW STEPS, FOR THE WAY FORWARD, AFTER A 100 YEARS OF IRRATIONALITY IN PHYSICS. ONOW HE PROBABLY ISN’T THE FELLOW TO SUCCESSFULLY TAKE AN WHOLE BUNCH MORE OF THOSE STEPS. BUT HE’S DONE JUST A SUPERB JOB, AT SHOWING HOW I COULD (JUST FOR EXAMPLE) IF I HAD A TEAM, MANAGE THAT TEAM, TO GO FORWARD AND MAKE REAL PROGRESS.

    ……. other than make more conjectures to add to the ocean of conjectures that are already floating around in abundance on the internet (OH NO. NOT ANOTHER FAUX-FUCKING POPPERIAN MEATHEAD. FELLA GET YOUR EPISTEMOLOGICAL ACT TOGETHER.) EPISTEMOLOGY IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT, ABOUT SOME IGNORANT, COOKIE-CUTTER APPROACH, TO DO WITH CONJECTURES AND REFUTATIONS. THIS IS A REAL FUCKING IGNORANT, AND BONE-HEADED, APPROACH TO RESEARCH. PLUS ITS NEVER EVER GOING TO WORK.

  110. Always we get some moron who thinks that science is not subject to laws of logic. If velocity is a relative concept we are not entitled to say that one object is still and one object is moving. So we cannot account for TIMING differences by reference to velocity. This is the end of the matter. We are NOT short of other alternatives when it comes to working out what the data is telling us.

    It must be appreciated, never once has there been evidence tendered for even one assumption of special relativity. Never once.

  111. Special relativity has never predicted any of these macro timing experiments. What has happened rather is that general relativity has been used as a fudge factor in order to tell us what we already knew. This is a much easier trick of circularity to pull off then is generally recognised, but it becomes clearer when we remind ourselves that no object in this universe EVER moves in a straight line. Further to that the lunatics who support special relativity have never conducted an experiment, wherein the two test subjects, were moving in a straight line with regards to eachother. NEVER. Not once. They would never dare.

    Consider when you have a clock on the ground, another orbiting space. Are either moving in a straight line NO. Are either moving in a straight line with regards to eachother NO!!!!!

    What a fucking scandal?!!!! Did they measure the effects of acceleration and then factor them out NO. Did they measure the effects of zero g and zero air pressure and factor them out NO.

    So the experiments have never been conducted in anything resembling a scientific way. Its a total scandal. A labyrinth of bullshitartistry and pseudo-religion.

  112. The essence of conducting a scientific experiment of this sort, is to make sure you can factor out everything BUT that which you are trying to test. Since no effort has ever gone into factoring out all variables but for velocity there has NEVER been any evidence for this bullshit. But consider if we describe an series of experiments that would factor everything out BUT velocity. No-one would fund an experiment of this sort since we already know we’ll get a negative result.

    To study how bad general relativity is you’d need a history of popular assumptions of what constitutes general relativity. Because it changes as the data comes in. It will always be bullshit, and we don’t need it to predict what we already know, but the mathematical “predictions” will of course be now pretty refined.

    • I just love how you edited my posts and interjected your own comments into them without making a clear delineation between what my words and what your words were, other than the fact that you seem overly fond of using caps lock. OTHER THAN?ITS EASY FOR THIRD PARTIES TO SEE WHO THE SITE DEITY IS.

      Beyond that, your comments were almost incomprehensible. For example, you denied my statement that nuclear hyperfine transitions are not affected by gravity by just saying “NO”

      THE CLOCKS ARE AFFECTED BY GRAVITY, OR BY BEING IN SPACE, OR BY SOME MECHANISM OR WE WOULD NEVER HAVE MENTIONED THIS MATTER. WE KNOW THAT THEY ARE AFFECTED SINCE WHEN YOU BRING THEM BACK OR EVEN BEFORE YOU BRING THEM BACK, THE CLOCKS ARE OUT OF SYNC. SO THEY MUST HAVE BEEN AFFECTED. WE CAN RULE OUT ENTIRELY AND UP FRONT THE VOODOO NOTION THAT THEY ARE AFFECTED BY VELOCITY ALONE. SINCE VELOCITY IS AN ENTIRELY RELATIVE CONCEPT.

      in capital letters, and never gave any explanation of why it is affected, and what the magnitude of the effect is. You denied my statement that Sagnac interferometry relied on relativity

      THIS IS JUST A FACT SAGNAC’S IDEAS NEVER DEPENDED ON A SINGLE WORD EINSTEIN EVER ONCE SAID. THIS WAS TO DO WITH CERTAIN PROPERTIES OF LIGHT, AND IT WAS WORK DONE PRIOR TO THE EINSTEIN CULT BEING LOCKED IN. WE ARE ONLY TALKING ABOUT THE BEHAVIOUR OF LIGHT. NOT IDIOCY LIKE SPACE-TIME, CURVED SPACE, AND OTHER WRONG STUFF

      by essentially saying that it works through some unknown OUTLAWED MORE LIKE IT means unrelated to relativity, IT DOES INDEED WORK THOUGH MEANS NOT RELATED TO WRONG IDEAS AND THE PUBLIC SERVICE HAS LET US DOWN IF IT HASN’T FOUND OUT THE MEANS. BUT ESSENTIALLY ITS TO DO WITH PROPERTIES OF LIGHT. THE PUBLIC SERVICE REFUSES TO DO THE HARD YARDS TO FIND OUT WHAT GRAVITY AND LIGHT IS. PREFERRING TO KICK BACK, TAKE IT EASY, NEVER DO ANY HARD WORK, AND INSTEAD JUST ABUSE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY TRY TO DO THEIR WORK FOR THEM without actually specifying what the mechanism is, or explaining why computing the interference shifts using the Minkowski metric just happens to “coincidentally” predict exactly what happens in reality when Sagnac interferometers are actually built and tested in real life. What fortuitous good luck! IF YOU THINK CIRCULAR REASONING IS GOOD LUCK WELL YOU ARE PRETTY DIMWITTED. NO PROPERTY OF NATURE HAS EVER DEPENDED ON SPECIAL RELATIVITY.

      • As if I’ve got the time to formulate a replacement for the disgrace of unreason that the public service has left behind them in physics. It takes minutes to prove Einstein wrong. It would take an healthy global physics community to get these things right.

        What I can do is point out excellent work in the past when I run across it. The theory of the partially-entrained aether is good stuff. The Gaede rope theory of gravity and light is sound and in fact must be true in some form. In the sixties two chemists came up with a simple working model of the nucleus that could have easily replaced the quantum voodoo for the time being as research got back on track.

        The public servants have not just made a mess of things. They are actively getting in the way. And one suspects the hand of covert ops in a lot of these affairs.

  113. James McCanney has identified a comet that is now heading into the solar system, that will make a close pass with Mars next October. Its a bit different from the others, since its orbit is closer to the orbit of the other planets then most. It will drop in skidding sideways like the others and it will go both above and below the orbit of the other planets, but less drastically then the others. Everyone is quiet about this particular comet, having been worn down by all this 2012 talk. C2012S1.

  114. The point of what James is saying is that this particular comet, like no other, has the potential to expose the strategic persistent lying of NASA, and one supposes the wider science Maffia. He himself didn’t say so, but depending on how large it is, it could pose a threat to earth, since the larger a comet is the more unpredictable they become. However this does not appear to be much of an issue. The real deal is with the much-punished Mars. If this comet has a close pass with Mars it could radically change the Mars atmosphere. The way McCanney puts it it could TERRAFORM Mars. What that would do is make mince-meat of all the bullshitartistry of dope-smoking unscientist Carl Sagan and scores like him.

  115. From Elsewhere

    Graeme Bird says:

    What happens is that the people who carry out all these fraudulent endeavours work the hardest to stooge intelligent and patriotic conservatives. Dumb-left-wingers fool themselves. They don’t need to be taken into consideration. Think of someone that fits that bill? Victor Davis Hanson. Intelligent. A great scholar. Has the perspective of having studied ancient history. But is unaware and/or skeptical of the Shadow Government which comes out of monetary conditions of the modern era. This shadow government, and the monetary specifics it arose from, makes a mockery of the historians perspective, unless perhaps that historian is a scholar of the Venetian republic.

    If you can fool Victor and Mark Steyn you have the community entire. With this current information what the shadow government will do is leave the evidence all over the place. This is low-hanging fruit, but the second part of the strategy is to abuse everyone who picks up the low-hanging fruit.

    In brief this controversy about the Usurper (Barry Soetoro) is just a manufactured controversy in order to make this unreal raid appear more real. We conservatives leap at it, then all the alleged experts abuse us, we quieten down again, and walk around unconvinced. Now those who follow the evidence (ie conservative patriots) are both semi-silenced and convinced of leftist and crypto-Islamic perfidy. We are beaten in the public sphere yet walk around with pride at our superior reasoning skills. The reality is the whole dog and pony show is to fool people like us.

    But the greater reality is that the raid itself was an obvious and transparent fraud. It never happened. The entire acting career of the bin Laden identity was ridiculous. The whole concept of Osama was a childish fantasy, not too much different from the Dr Moriarti of the later Sherlock Holmes novels. The Osama Bin Goldstein characterisation was so blindingly stupid, it was never going to be entrusted to a living human being. All extant evidence has Osama dying somewhere around the years 2002-2003.

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  118. Thanks a ton for taking free time in order to write “No Question: The Greatest Book Written So Far This Century/Bill Gaedes
    Physics Book | A Better World: Graeme Bird For High Office”.

    Thank you again ,Shelton


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