Posted by: graemebird | November 21, 2009

The Stone Blocks Of The Pyramids: What They Were Originally Made For.

Its not plausible that the blocks that the pyramids were built from, were originally quarried specifically for the pyramids. That is to say its not plausible that someone got the idea to build the pyramids. Then they up and cut, moved, and assembled the whole lot of them from scratch. What really must have happened is that the blocks must have been cut many years before for other reasons. They must have been cut and quarried over many hundreds of years. And then when the determination was made to build the pyramids, they simply would have been retrieved and assembled those blocks. Hence the pyramid building job would have simply been a matter of big stone block retrieval, the setting up of a convoy, most likely of a robotic nature, and putting the blocks in place. Probably a couple of warm-up pyramids would have been made with the smaller and lower quality blocks. Then when various problems had been worked through the better bigger pyramids would have been made with the larger better blocks.

We’ve built up a lot of assumptions here in earlier threads. And of course if one base assumption is shown to be wrong then the whole theory tumbles but thats a good and not a bad thing.

The biggest pyramid has maybe 2 and a half million blocks. Pharaonic propaganda claims that it was made over a 20 year period. Just for that one pyramid alone I made that out to be 1 stone every 252 seconds I think from memory. For all the pyramids in Egypt I’ve heard people talk about one block every 9 seconds. Now this isn’t even a very good lie. The problem is that you need capital goods to make these blocks and whatever you use to transport the blocks. And you need capital goods to make those capital goods and it keeps regressing. Capital goods are used up in the act of production. So to gear up production to cut these stones over a 20 year period is ridiculous. And the fact is it did not happen that way. Pharaonic Egypt was basically communist as defined by religion, state and governance being all wrapped into one. And they lied like communists clearly.

The Basic Conundrum

The fundamental conundrum we have with the Pyramids is that to make these pyramids out of stone, the Velonovins must have been more high-tech than what we are. But were they more high-tech then what we are they would not have made the pyramids out of stone. Ergo it follows directly that this was a post-catastrophic production. All their transport robots would have been repaired by the traumatised survivors and the blocks no longer in use would have been taken from where they had been, and in a panic the pyramids were built to have at least some refuge should another disaster occur. You might think of it as a wasted effort. Because there has been no disaster of that magnitude in the interim. But it was more than merely a wasted effort. It was a curse. What had grown up organically was now replaced with a Nile-based civilisation planned with intention and fear of the oceans. And the civilisation built was seeded with flaws that would mean we could never hope to get back to the golden age prior to the catastrophe.

Had the Velanovins known that there would be no further catastrophes on quite that same scale the Velanovins ought to have just gone back to the coast. Tried to make their economy a sustainable and non-scavenging one. It was the curse of an economy built on the pseudo-subsidy of scavenged goods that did us in. The Velanovins (in my version of events) ought not have worried about building on the higher ground by the Nile river. But rather they should have gone back to their destroyed homes on the sea. But they instead went to the Nile. A scavenging economy quite naturally lead to statism. The new world on the banks of the Nile could not become the setup for an improving technological society. And so the more Rothbardian, sea-based economy was lost (in my version of this story) and a new repulsive statist seed was planted in this world. Something that had not been there before, or at the very least had been sucessfully eradicated, or they could not have reached the superior technological level that they seem to have reached.

WILD SWINGS IN SEA LEVEL

But why would the pre-catastrophe world have had all these big blocks? The reason why is that the pre-catastrophe world was the world of the glacial period. And the glacial period is the period where you have wild swings in sea level. Only the big blocks can protect you from the ocean. A high-tech society, more high-tech than our own is also more sea-based then our own. That it must be more sea-based follows directly from economic laws. Technology is imbedded in capital update and capital accumulation. As an economy develops the Boehm-Bawerk doctrine of the lengthening of the structure of production kicks in. Should we have an inland based economy then this lengthening of the production structure would mean that GDR would continue to outpace GDP in growth. And a limiting factor would be reached. Since the amount of trucking and transport would have to increase disproportionately. The economy would get way too greedy energy-wise. I may be quoting Felipe Fernandez-Armesto when I say that mountain ranges divide us but oceans bring us together. Economic law emphasises this in a big way. Since with the ongoing lengthening of the production structure, what we would be after is arrays of pyramidal and conical buidlings, fairly near the coast, and heavy cargo moving via the sea. Not overland.

So the sea is widely variable during glacial periods. Whereas CO2-bedwetters are lying to us about how the seas could rise drastically, the reality of the matter is that this is impossible. Arctic ice is floating. So melting it doesn’t affect sea level. Antarctic ice at -60 degrees celsius cannot be melted. So the only source of water to make our sea levels rise is from Greenland. And that will melt very slowly if things don’t now start going the other way as I suggest that they will. Our background sea level rising is about 2mm per year since the end of the glacial period. This jumps around all over the place but by no great amount in any given year. The sea level during a glacial period is an entirely different matter.

During a glacial period there are trillions of tonnes of land ice that may be close to melting point at any given time. Also within the massive ice sheets there may be a great lot of already melted water that is yet still contained by the surrounding ice. One can see the glacial period sea levels then bouncing around all over the place and by fairly drastic amounts. This is the reason for a high-tech civilisation cutting all the big blocks. This is the ONLY CONCEIVABLE reason for a high-tech society to be cutting all these big blocks.

GO IN TWELVE MINUTES TO SEE HOAGLANDS COMPARISON PICTURES BETWEEN MODERN WEAPONS AND DEPICTIONS AT ABYLOS.

LESSONS FOR OUR FUTURE

Currently 2012 catastrophists are hoping to ride the disaster out by building on the high ground. I believe we must do better than that and still base our act reasonably near the sea. The idea is to put all the effort into the survivability of the buildings. Not the survivability of ones position. I’d rather have a building down at Innisfail that could survive an earthquake of 10 on the Richter scale, and a succession of tidal waves of a kilometer high each. As well as one that could sheild out gamma ray blasts. That would respond to a sudden equatorial shift by skidding along the ground for hundreds of metres without tipping over. And that could last underwater for a very long time while the flood waters were draining. What I’m saying is that I’d rather have such an extraordinary building like this down at Innisfail, then having a middling building up at the Atherton tablelands.

I would want the situation of many people having buildings like this that were sufficiently large for industrial production. And that when the disaster was over we could transport all such buildings down to the coast and the designs were such that we could set them up in array and attach above ground light-rail between them, to get back to a serious economy as quickly as possible. Remembering that in a really big catastrophe most buildings would be flattened. Few fences would be standing, and most land-owners would be dead. And even if lawful title was still a real factor, well the land-owner near the coast would be only too willing to cut a deal to have somewhere to stay.

For the record I don’t place all that much significance on this particular 2012 date. Some significance but not a great deal. Rather I take the LaViolette view that we are overdue for something really pretty nasty, and have only maybe one chance in ten of avoiding this in the next (he says) 400 years. I think we ought to trust his judgement for now, but assume that he’s being conservative, and that the risks will be front-end-loaded.

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Responses

  1. From youtube:

    For all its polish this is utter fantasy. The BBC doesn’t have the evidence for all this conjecture. They’ve got a big load of cartoon pictures and a whole lot of pharaonic propaganda. That two and a half million 2.5 ton blocks were quarried and assembled with copper age tools isn’t even a good lie. But Pharaonic Egypt was basically a communist setup. And its quite natural that they would lie and give themselves the credit.

    In reality the only way to understand this matter is that the blocks were made over many hundreds of years for other purposes. Then simply assembled for these pyramids. Also we already know that the Sphinx precedes Pharaonic Egypt by many thousands of years. That at least has been proven. Hence until proven otherwise we ought to simply assume the Pyramids are likewise many thousands of years older. Anyone gainsaying this contention only has Pharaonic propaganda going for them.

    And such propaganda amounts to no evidence at all. I watched this story very carefully. And could find nothing to justify the logistics involved. Capital goods are worn out in production and are produced by other capital goods and so forth. It would bankrupt any nation to pull this off from scratch today if we tried it on. To get to the bottom of this mystery we must solve this most basic conundrum.

    “The fundamental conundrum we have with the Pyramids is that to make these pyramids out of stone, the Velonovins must have been more high-tech than what we are. But were they more high-tech then what we are they would not have made the pyramids out of stone.”

    If we had half a dozen paradigms to solve this conundrum then we would have a starting point with which to solve the wider mystery. I have made up such a conjecture.

    … a conjecture, yet without the BBC hubris of fooling myself that my paradigm is the right one.

  2. I just wrote to Robert Bauval to see if he would give me some feedback on my theory:

    I’m listening to Robert Here:

    Re 200 ton blocks. There ought be no mystery here. Prior to the Quarternary extinction event they would have been in the glacial period. In a full-blown glacial period there are trillions of tons of ice close to melting point. And water encased in ice. What this means is that the sea level is very unstable during a glacial period. Hence the civilisation was coastal. The survivors took the blocks built up over 100’s of years to make the pyramids on higher ground. They would have repaired some of their high-tech gear, and before it all fell to pieces they would have made a sanctuary by the Nile.

    https://graemebird.wordpress.com/2009/11/21/the-stone-blocks-of-the-pyramids-what-they-were-originally-made-for/

    Whereas our own sea levels rise maybe -1 to 5mm in any given year, the glacial period sea level would have altered a great deal all the time.
    Only huge blocks could do the job for dealing with the oceans in those days. So only big blocks would do it. And only the glacial period
    sea level could explain them going to the trouble of it.
    Could you pass this thought on and see if he wants to give me some feedback.

  3. August 11, 3114BC …….. to December 21st 2012

    That difference is about 5126 years.

  4. So bird, the blocks weren’t made to build the pyramids?

    EXACTLY. NOR WOULD THEY HAVE BEEN. NOR COULD THEY HAVE BEEN.

  5. No, they were just casually lying around the desert.

    NO THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN DOWN ON THE COAST. NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT AT ALL. THE QUATERNARY EXTINCTION EVENT WOULD HAVE FINALLY TOPPLED THEM AND PUT THEM UNDERWATER. HENCE IT WAS A MATTER OF RETRIEVING THEM AND TAKING THEM TO HIGHER GROUND. THE SURVIVORS WOULD HAVE HAD MORE CAPITAL GOODS PER MAN THEN AT ANY TIME BEFORE OR SINCE BUT IN A STATE OF DISREPAIR. HENCE THEY WERE IN A POSITION TO BUILD THESE THINGS AT THIS TIME, LIKE IN NO OTHER TIME IN HISTORY.

  6. “Another win for Goddess Philomena the Greek, She Who Must be Adored against Catallaxian forces of darkness.

    HaHaHaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!”

    It is a win I suppose. But you have to be fair here where Krugman isn’t. Reagan really was spending all his time RESISTING tax increases. The intention was there. Ultimately it was night and day between him and what came next. And the limiting of monetary inflation makes a huge difference. So its a Technical win on points against me. And of course a win by default against Cambria. Because Cambria is an idiot. But it creates the wrong impression about Reagan.

  7. “What you cannot explain in rational terms, is that these temples are built with blocks that range between 50 and 200 tons. Now let me give you an idea of what a 200 ton block looks like. Its twice the size of a locomotive. Its an enormous block………..

    …….. Now the minute you say this to a construction engineer or an architect he is baffled. Because he says well why would you want to do that? Because its much easier, much more practical, and even more structurally better to use smaller blocks…

    …. The pyramids themselves are built with smaller blocks. So why would they want to build SMALL temples (they are not very big temples) with these GIANT BLOCKS.

    I mean it doesn’t make sense. I mean it really doesn’t. There is no rational explanation to it……

    ……. Let me tell you I am a construction engineer. And if someone came to me and said I would like to build a house with 200 ton blocks, I’d call the psychologist…………

    …… When you look at a 200 ton block and you look at it at an altitude of about 10 metres ……..

    …… Let me give you a little analogy here George. So you really GET the strangeness of this. Imagine a lady going out of her house and she wants to take her pair of gloves in her handbag. Now instead of doing that she carries her wardrobe. Just to carry her pair of gloves. It doesn’t make sense. So she is either mad or she’s got and easy way to carry the wardrobe. You get my drift….

    …… And this is what we see with these blocks. They simply don’t make sense ……..”

    ROBERT BAUVAL.

    Well the thing is I’ve found out why they did it that way. Since they didn’t make the blocks for the purpose.

  8. Bird so you have a hot new friend in Phil. Does your wife know you’re having phone conversations…..

    (site deity sez:) Not only is Phil not a shemale. She is about as womanly as you can imagine. Its like she must have extra X chromosones. I hate to see her and CL fighting. And I wish she’d just keep slapping the quisling Cambria around. Which I presume to be your hateful self. Because she is about exactly the same level of cute as who CL often comments about. Cuter in my view but I’m biased.

    What I’m happy about right now is finally the interest in the Pyramids has taken off. This thread has suddenly gone beserk. And people must know that I’ve finally hit upon the solution that has been bugging all thinking folks for a very long time.

  9. Mr Bird, I don’t think you are anti-Jewish at all. And I’d be wooing the luscious Philomena too if lucky enough to be in your shoes. You hound dog you.

    “LUSCIOUS” IS PRECISELY HOW YOU WOULD DESCRIBE HER. BUT YOU KNOW THAT I WOULD DENY ANY WOOING STORY TILL MY FACE FELL OFF WHETHER TRUE OR NOT.

    SAL I GET ANGRY AT ALL SORTS OF PEOPLE FROM TIME TO TIME. BUT I WORRY ABOUT PEOPLE GETTING ANGRY AT JEWS. BECAUSE WHEREIN SOMEONE ELSE DOES SOMETHING WRONG IT IS JUST THAT PERSON DOING SOMETHING WRONG. BUT WHEN ANTI-SEMITISM IS ON THE RISE ALL THE CRIMES OF ANY INDIVIDUAL BECOME HANGING CRIMES AND ARE SHEETED OFF TO ALL THE OTHERS COLLECTIVELY AND SEVERALLY.

  10. how do you know the pictures are for real?

    What pictures. I deny seeing all pictures. That women is a luscious liar. Don’t believe anything she has ever said. I’ve never seen her at all. Don’t have a clue what she looks like. In fact I’m blind. I’ve always been blind and anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

  11. Excellent points Mr Bird.

    I’m a big fan of Jews myself. I particularly have a strong penchant for dark-eyed ebony-haired full breasted highly intelligent Jewish women who twist me in every which way.

    I’m sure you know what I mean by that.

    (SITE DEITY) YOU OUGHT NOT MAKE THE SCRAWNY GIRLS FEEL BAD. THATS IT. I’M OUT OF THE HOUSE.

  12. Bird:
    Good work. You’ve got yourself banned for the Cat again.

    You just can’t help yourself can you.

  13. BEAT IT CAMBRIA YOU IDIOT. WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE YOU JERK.

  14. The fact is I’m going to have to reconstitute the other thread. But not mix up a couple of issues. I’m finding that even the better commenters are losing their intellectual precision as the general level of blogs deteriorates. Philomena convinced me to suspend it Cambria so don’t be stooging yourself dummy. But its true one doesn’t want to confuse people.

    But I certainly like the thread. The most successful thread in the history of my blog in terms of the most hits in a single afternoon. And plus there was a couple of sensational comic turns from Tillman’s alter ego. Sensationally racist. But really his best work.

    If we are to survive there has to be a thing called TREASON. And there has to be punishments for it. I will try and explain matters a little bit more clearly but it will basically be the same thread. With the same title. And the same goal. That if it is shown that Rudd is moving to betray us, that there has to be some sort of LEGAL AND NON-LETHAL punishment for it.

  15. Were the Velonovins (or whatever they’re called) refugees from Atlantis?

  16. If by Atlantis you mean “Pre-Quaternary Extinction Event Coastal Civilisation…” well you could say that. I’ve named them to distinguish them from modern Egyptians. From the Kemi (ie Pharaonic Egyptians) and also to smuggle in the idea that what took them out was the supernova known as VELO.

    The people either side of the Velo Supernova is what I’m talking about. Three generations either side of it is how I’d frame it.

    The Velo Supernova was only 800 light-years away. It must have been a terrible fearful event.

  17. I’m pretty sure the pyramid blocks aren’t stone but an early form of concrete poured on site.

  18. See thats a reasonable alternative explanation. And good on you for putting it up. But for one thing you are not the least bit sure of it. For another thing the only real evidence for your contention is that its better than the ridiculous consensus theory. For another thing it presupposes a pretty advanced technology, but your story has the advantage of it being possible without them actually being more advanced than what we are. I contend that they were more and not less advanced than what we are.

    Other problems with your story are that you are attempting to place Kemi priorities on a pre-Kemi (I would say Velonovin culture).

    So whereas the Kemi were deeply religious, with religion and State one integrated entity. In actuality the culture that made the pyramids had to be freer than that. Since highly capitalised cultures can produce more than a slave society.

    Again we have that same paradox. A society free enough to be capable of pulling this off would not have acted in this way. And yet a society that could be put into this sort of monomania from the top down, could never have had the capital resources to have done this.

    But your paradigm is worth putting up as a competing paradigm. The paradigm that has no legs at all is the one where they carved these granite blocks with small bronze chisels. A bunch of chisel sharpeners worked around the clock. And then they dragged all this stuff up with ropes and bits of wood with some fool having to lubricate the grown with water. This “scholars” version has no legs whatsoever.

    You ought to admit that your alternative. As good as it is, has only come about due to the impossibility of the consensus story.

  19. Look at the difference here:

    “”The long wall of 10,000 Li (里)”[1]) is a series of stone and earthen fortifications in northern China, built, rebuilt, and maintained between the 5th century BC and the 16th century to protect the northern borders of the Chinese Empire from Xiongnu attacks during various successive dynasties”

    So the great walls continuing development spanned two millenia. Not two decades as one Pharaoh or other must have ludicrously claimed to shower his useless ass in divine grandeur. The great wall was also for ongoing practical purposes. That is to say to shield out some of Jason Soons more violent ancestors. One or other of the areas could have been developed and reinforced intermittently. And there is not the big block mystery that we have at Baalbek and Giza.

    The advantage or your system is that it doesn’t have the mystery that mine has with it of the lack of dispersal of middling technologies. For example the Quarternary extinction reveals the technological level of Clovis man in North America

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/clovis/fenn.html

    One wonders how you could have a space-age technological society in coastal North Africa, perhaps elsewhere, but these guys just basically hug the coast. And the Clovis types don’t get the benefits of some of their assistance. In fact that might be what anarcho-capitalism would give you. Perhaps you would have just no use for the inland and never bother to make an inland road or rail, bringing in all sorts of inefficiencies and lack of productivity. This is not a small objection to my version of events. Its a big one. But its really the only one.

  20. “Paul Craig Roberts is a nutball 9/11 troofer and anti-semite.”

    Come on CL. You’ve got to lift your standards back up. No use quoting the wiki for starters. But when you quote the wiki and virtually everything he says is dead right well what is your point?

    You are allowing yourself the luxury of being irrational on a few matters but it cannot help but spread to your whole act. The anti-semite case you point to is very weak. Not a single quote in the original with context. And you know that the anti-defamation people are usually very hard on conservatives and they give all but the most atrocious lefties a free ride.

  21. CL you know you have never overturned what I told you about 9/11, as of necessity, being a bigger affair, and having had to of involved regime intelligence. You had just no comeback to that. So you are just doing what the global warming crowd do. Ignore the facts and reassert.

    This is no good because I am seeing you and Fisk drop your previously impeccable standards in a background of debate degradation in Catallaxy. Everyones got to focus on pulling up the intellectual precision there. The idea is to bash Cambria every half hour whether he needs it or not, but also to acknowledge the valid points that sometime adversaries make.

  22. “But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God – having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.”

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    And there will be SIGNS in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, THE SEA AND THE WAVES ROARING; men’s hearts failing them from fear and for looking at the things that are coming upon the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

  23. The poured concrete theory bird is fairly well established even if its not the mainstream view.

    The concrete theorists also point out differences in density of the pyramid stones, which have a higher mass near the bottom and bubbles near the top, like old-style cement blocks.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article656117.ece

  24. For another thing it presupposes a pretty advanced technology, but your story has the advantage of it being possible without them actually being more advanced than what we are.

    Poured concrete was well used in roman times and is possibly believed to have come to them from the greeks. Its is not at all unfeasible that the egyptians had also worked this out.

    Some more links.

    http://www.boston.com/news/science/articles/2008/04/22/a_new_angle_on_pyramids/

  25. Right but its a non-theory for the following reasons:

    “The pair believe that the concrete method was used only for the stones on the higher levels of the Pyramids. There are some 2.5 million stone blocks on the Cheops Pyramid. The 10-tonne granite blocks at their heart were also natural, they say….”

    It backs up my theory and lends no weight to any supposition that this was a Kemi, or Phaoraonic, project.

    Rather it lends weight to what I’m saying. It appears they had a high diversity of technologies.

  26. Professor Bird
    what are the implications of this finding for your theory?

  27. oops forgot the link

    http://www.smh.com.au/world/science/mars-was-wet-wet-wet-research-reveals-20091124-jeim.html

  28. Right. I suspect that its basically all one big ice sheet now. The outpost remnants would appear to testify to this. Else it would be insufficiently cost effective to have colonised mars in the past.

    If the outposts are from Velanovin times, rather than from millions of years ago… Well this is not practical except that there was ready water to hand. I suspect that if you dig anywhere on Mars you will hit lots of ice.

  29. The implications are that Mars will be cost-effective to colonise if there is plenty of Helium-3 available. Its actually cheaper to ship stuff back from Mars then to truck it to Darwin, once you have the Maglev track to launch the cargo at earth without need for fuel, beyond the fuel necessary to nuance the direction.

    This is simply for commodity style goods wherein the G-Forces aren’t going to kill everyone on board. Transporting humans is of course a more costly deal again.

    Also its only going to become cheaper if the scale of the project has you launching the cargo as a continuous convoy on the hour.

    RETURN COSTS FROM EARTH TO MARS A MORE EXPENSIVE DEAL.

    To get the return launch costs down from Earth to Mars however, is going to be prohibitively expensive for a very long time.

    We would need to commandeer Mount Everest and turn it into one big Maglev track launch site. With nuclear power and thousands of hydrogren fuel cells for the job.

    When the launch is not going ahead one suspects that you would be using the nuclear powered station to create the hydrogen and oxygen needed, for your Oxygen and Hydrogen rocket fuel. And you would also be making hydrogen for your multiple fuel cells, or perhaps hydrogen powered electricty generating turbines … In order to generate a lot of electricity all at once for the next launch.

    Well it need not be Mount Everest. But you are looking for the biggest Mountain closest to the Equator. And where the nuclear power station at the base can otherwise be turned for civilian use. Only that three-way compromise can get you the mountain you are looking for to bring launch costs down.

    It was said that in the late 19th Century, still in the age of sailboats, it was cheaper to take cargo, Port to Port from New York to London then it was to take that same Cargo only 50 miles at the frontier.

    This principle can be repeated for Moon-to-Earth and Mars-to-Earth cargo when you have the infrastructure for cheap launches, and when you have the scale of industry big enough for the continuous convoy I’m talking about.

    Hence it is possible (even if improbable) that a Velanovin society could find it cheaper to stay by the Coast in North Africa, and get all sorts of commodities from the Moon and Mars, rather than waste resources building and maintaining road and rail inland.

    Strange and unlikely, but at least possible.

    Should we wish to emulate this vision we already have a suitable launching spot on Mars. This is it here.

  30. Hi! I just wanted to ask if you ever have any trouble with hackers?
    My last blog (wordpress) was hacked and I ended up losing a few months of
    hard work due to no back up. Do you have any solutions
    to prevent hackers?

  31. Howdy just wanted to give you a quick heads up.
    The words in your article seem to be running off the screen in Safari.
    I’m not sure if this is a format issue or something to do with browser compatibility but I figured I’d post to let you
    know. The layout look great though! Hope you get the problem solved soon.
    Kudos


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