Posted by: graemebird | April 6, 2010

Searching For Rules Of Thumb With Regards To Orthogonality.

Supposing you get made Australian minister for science or something similar. And
you are given the power to sack everyone who gives you static, on the basis that
you have to reduce the budget, for the CSIRO and elsewhere, by about 1% per
week. But also in this context you want to get some of these people helping you
suss out Gaede-rope theory. (((A disclaimer has to come here for the benefit of Catallaxy
types who figure this is what I would do. No of course not. This project would distract
from cutting the budget.))))

What would you be having people doing, if in this fantasy, you were determined to solve the mysteries
of light and gravity?

I think you would need to suss out general rules
of thumb(and rules-of-thumb formulas even) to do with orthogonal ropes.

So you maybe have some of these people working with clotheline-like setups,
figuring out how to make the impulse between the two pegs go faster. And they
are asking questions to do with everything that is known about Birkeland
currents. What is causing the two lines to stay together and wrap around
eachother? What is causing one electrical current from spreading too far away
from the other when it does? What is causing the two strands of the Birkeland
current to repel eachother when they get too close?

We could then compare that with what happens with DNA. How do the DNA spiral
around like that? Same sorts of questions. I’m too ignorant to know the precise
questions, but we’d want to ask parallel questions to those ones about the
Birkeland currents.

We could get these science workers running tests between non-elastic ropes.
Elastic ropes. And I think particularly elastic ropes of different
stretch-characteristics. To my mind, the Gaede-ropes must have elasticity. Perhaps this is possible
with the Birkeland currents too. If there is a Birkeland current more or less
keeping in touch between the sun and the earth, what are the consequences of the
sun and the earth moving further away? Does this mean that the wrap-around is
squeezed tighter? Or does the current break and reform.

If the way the Birkeland current is squeezed tighter (supposing it is) when the
sun gets farther away, how does that effect electricity delivery, and does this
exert and independent pull between the two bodies? If the bodies get too close
too quickly, does this cause a voltage buildup and some sort of repelling force?
Will it lead to more lightning storms or something of this nature?

I think the Gaede-ropes are elastic. And to exert a force it might be that one
strand wants to stretch slightly less then the other. So I’d be wanting the
experiments to be conducted with bungy ropes of differing sizes and tightness,
and also where they are oddly matched with slightly different
stretch-characteristics. To see what general rules of thumb can be gleaned.

I think the Gaede-Ropes must also be constantly snapping and spontaneously
reforming. And so if this is true, we want to have some good understanding of
what would cause them to reform. Since I have no idea WHAT would cause them to
reform, I’d want to know if there was some analogy with DNA or Birkeland
currents.

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Responses

  1. From elsewhere:

    Travis if you don’t like my wording of the hypothesis, you put your own less harsh rewording. Do I have to spell it out to everyone here that there is no such thing as evidence without a specific, unambiguous hypothesis?

    Whatever the truth is in this story, and I tend to veer to the mainstream on this one issue, when they are just so full of shit on most things …….. whatever the truth is its not good to be unscientific, smug, to lack humility, and to approach all opposition with ridicule.

    That sort of gear might make you feel good over at PZ Myers’ place. But its not what science, properly considered, is about. You are not here to feel superior to these poor parents who cannot get straight answers.

    And for the love of stupid biologists everywhere do not bring up this bullshit about “concern blogging.” If there is one thing that science is about its not the question of ones belief.

  2. WE DON’T WANT TO BLEND ANYTHING. RATHER WE WANT TO FIND OUT BY OTHER EXAMPLES WHAT MIGHT BE CAUSING THIS WRAP-AROUND PHENOMENON.

  3. No no Chris. Stop being an idiot and lets have your evidence. You are the anonymous entity here. Being insulting is no substitute for being a scientist.

    Here is the hypothesis again:

    “Vaccines definitely make no contributing cause to the problem of autism”

    I wasn’t after bullshit from morons here. I was after evidence. Now do you have it or don’t you?

    You see you are a moron Chris. Wake up to yourself.
    Posted by: Graeme Bird | April 6, 2010 4:22 AM
    90

    “Graeme Bird, please sure us what evidence you have that supports your conclusion.”

    See you are a liar Chris. I never came to a conclusion. You are calling me an anti-vaxer for no reason at all. You came to a conclusion, I did not. I’m asking you for evidence for your conclusion. So you are not a scientist mate. And you are a liar.

    Now imagine the position dropkicks like you put worried parents in. You can give them no guidance at all.

    Posted by: Graeme Bird | April 6, 2010 4:27 AM
    92
    Have you got that evidence Chris?

    Yes or no?

    See you haven’t got it have you.

    So what is all this arrogance about?

    Posted by: Graeme Bird | April 6, 2010 4:31 AM
    Post a Comment

  4. site deity sez:There is no link. I didn’t say there was a link. You are lying when you imply that I’m saying that there is a link.

    But if we are talking about a situation where two things are wrapping around eachother, then we want to see what is common to all. Do you know why the Birkeland currents have this wrap-around nature to them?

  5. One of the best things that I saw in the Ben Stein film was the magnificent animated sequence to do with the extraordinary complexity of the cell. It is this complexity more than anything else, that makes the single planet/young universe version of evolution so presumptuous at this time, in the development of our knowledge.

    In a single cell you have the sort of complexity that seems to outdo an entire factory. We never used to understand this. We thought that you had the genes. And the rest of the cell is just goo.

    Now it might be later on we’ll find some business about reproducing strands of DNA that can get going near underwater volcanic discharges or something like that.

    But at this point of our knowledge I think we have to accept that evolution must be a multi-planet, old universe phenomenon.

    I like what some old French guy said in the movie. You see what we are talking about is information. There is an incredible amount of information we are talking about here. Relying on natural selection alone is problematic, because what natural selection does is it cuts down the amount of information. That would be alright if we had some mechanism that we understood really well to do with massively increasing the amount of information.

  6. This is the best time of the day because this is where I go and have a look at what my alter ego is twittering. To see if there is some line I’ve missed.

    “I keep having this problem in my bunker. I’m moving the troops on my map of Australia, yet Canberra is still standing. #yearzero
    11:00 PM Mar 31st via web”

    Thats really cool on a deeper level. Since essentially one might say I’m trying to destroy Canberra from my bedroom.

  7. Interesting website. The Catallaxy caveat applies. What someone believes is irrelevant. My linking this interesting site has nothing to do with what I believe. I’m a pretty humble fellow and don’t pretend to know stuff that I cannot possibly know.

    http://www.damonelkins.com/

    • Routine check to see where my website traffic is coming from revealed link to this posting of my website link.
      Just curious as to why?
      Is it to poke fun at what I “believe” as “irrelevant”?
      Or is it to poke fun at “science” being “unscientific”?

      • No I thought it was interesting. I couldn’t see anything unscientific about it. You are following the Sitchen hypothesis yeah?

  8. I’m well aware that my website and blog contain some “far out” material. Was just curious as to how it found its way here…but it appears it may have come about as chance discovery through Lloyd Pye’s site.
    My site is small potatoes compared to the big boys.
    Anyway, thanks for the heads up, Elektrik.

  9. I find Lloyd pretty impressive. I heard him saying he hitched up a meeting with you. And you were able to give him a four hour presentation which he found really convincing.

  10. I bet Lloyd Pye wouldn’t find you to be all that impressive Graeme.

    WHAT WOULD YOU KNOW YOU DOPE? I’VE TALKED TO LLOYD QUITE A BIT. AND I TAKE HIS OUTLOOK ON BOARD AS QUITE A SERIOUS MATTER. ONE PARADIGM AMONGST A FEW. BUT A SERIOUS ONE NONETHELESS.

    THE PYRAMIDS ARE MUCH OLDER THEN IS BEING TOLD BY THE QUACKADEMICS. WHY WOULD YOU DOUBT IT? CERTAINLY LLOYD IS NOT BUYING THE OFFICIAL STORY. HE’S A SMART GUY. NO DUMMY.

  11. Damon what is the best way for someone to get their “head around” your material?

    I cannot yet get a sense of your thesis in order to decide it plausibility or otherwise.

    It makes a big difference now that Lloyd has that skull because, what with the distances between stars its a very odd thing to have visitors here so recently. Hence I’m forced to at least give the Sitchen thesis my best shot.

    But you know, galactic navigation isn’t something one learns in school .

    • The best I’ve been able to do is http://www.lloydpye.com/DamonPathArticle.pdf
      which began with reading Sitchin material, then purchasing a print from the British Museum of the “Navigation Disk” followed by hundreds of hours with SkyGlobe to begin to see relationships between what we see looking out from the Earth and various relative “movement” of objects of the Solar System within the Orion Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy.
      Following that, I purchased a “map of the galaxy” from National Geographic and used that as the basis for my superimposed sphere showing “we are here”.
      Finally, I have spent a few hundred hours with Celestia which is a program allowing one to “move about in 3D” to see what it looks like from an incoming planet or spacecraft arriving from Nibiru on my proposed elliptical path of Nibiru.
      It is from those views that I began to comprehend what I believe to be the actual meaning of some of the ancient pictorials showing what is seen when looking toward Earth upon arrival from below our ecliptic where Earth and Nibiru ecliptics intersect.
      You are correct, it is not part of the current scientific paradigm to look at things this way because “we all know it’s impossible that someone visited earth a half a million years ago” as we were told by ancient writings and pictorials.
      I applaud your open-mindedness to explore wherever truth leads.

      • Wow what a tough gig. I don’t know if I’m ever going to be able to verify or falsify the thesis to my own satisfaction if thats the sort of work involved with it.

        Hey how about the Supernova thing. LaViolette reckons all the Supernovas in history, the ones visible with the naked eye, were caused by the same initial shockwave that set off Vela.

        So he says that the shockwave begins at the centre and travels out like a sphere. But from Earths point of view the shape is more ….. I don’t know the word ….. elipsoidal?

        Anyway. With your skills are you in the position to confirm or contradict that? I’ll get a list of these supernovae in a little while.

      • Perhaps I should have given the link to the PDF and stopped.
        http://www.lloydpye.com/DamonPathArticle.pdf

        It is the simplest “outcome” of my study where I overlaid a sphere with some axes and commentary onto the map of the galaxy.
        It’s the best I’ve been able to come up with for one to use “line of sight” to see Earth aligned with Sun and galactic center at winter solstice at the intersection of ecliptic and galactic planes.
        Earth’s north pole is only tipped in its precession “wobble” furthest that it goes toward galactic center (Orion lowest in sky from Earth) in the Great Age of Leo and furthest that it goes away from galactic center (Orion highest in sky from Earth) in the Great Age of Aquarius.
        These grand multiple alignments can serve as “timing” events which can be used as a fairly accurate clock/calendar over very long periods of time unlike the puny Earth projected grid onto the surroundings which has to be reset every 50 years due to precession wobble.

  12. How much older? When were they built and who built them? Also because you profess to know so much, why were they built?

    • The Spinx could not be less then 6000 years old or so. And is probably at least ten thousand years old. If I had to guess I’d say that the Sphinx came before the Vela Supernova and the Pyramids just after. But I cannot possibly know such a thing with precision. I would be fairly sure that both are older than 11000 years.

      Now what is your claim and why?

      • If I may offer my two cents worth on this…
        Chris Dunn has plenty to say about precision of construction of the Great Pyramid. Not something which stone or brass hammers were capable of. In fact, he shows pictures of tool marks more like a saw on large very flat surfaces blending into rounded corners which appear to have been drilled with hole saw. Problem is that with pressure necessary to cut with the demonstrated feedrate, the tool would have been destroyed unless there were something like ultrasonic vibration used in conjunction with the process of cutting.
        Robert Shock has some pretty convincing info about aging of the Great Sphinx due to water weathering which would necessarily take the time back to a conservative 9,000 or so years with supposition of still further back than that.
        As far as why build the Giza Complex…I have followed Bauval, West and Hancock as well as others who interpret the various locations and orientations as precisely “in tune” with the surrounding “stars”.
        My take after significant study is that The Great Sphinx was placed facing east toward Leo in the sky back around 10,500BC when the belt stars of Orion were at their “lowest” in the heavens due to Earth precession. Half a precession cycle later (12,500 or so years…about now in the great age of Aquarius) Earth’s precession wobble results in Orion’s belt stars appearing at their highest in the sky as observed from Earth.
        Not only is this relevant to Earth’s precession movement, it is also relevant to a “grand calendar” using the Earth, Sun, and Galactic relative alignments as a means to “set the clock”, and it also can serve as the time to “see” the interrelationship of Earth rotation and wobble, Earth alignment with Sun and galactic center. All this is corroborated by the ceiling of the Temple of Denderah with a view of constellations as one would see them when observing the galactic coordinates which would be necessary for a spacefarer who traveled beyond Earth’s confines at distance where Earth would not be visible and even the Sun would be only a small point of light among brighter points all around it.
        Motivation to construct such a lasting monument as the Giza Complex far exceeds the puny Hawass claim that the noble Egyptians did it as a burial complex. What few mummies have ever been found inside pyramids suggest that the pyramid was “borrowed” rather than constructed by those Egyptians with little to substantiate such claims.
        One more thing…the megalithic structures at Jerusalem and at Baalbek cannot be explained by suggestions that the Romans, Greeks or Egyptians did it, because the structures of the trilathon and similar stones at Jerusalem simply are far larger and heavier than anything those folks were able to do. Movement of obelisks in pieces smaller than each of the trilathons has been recorded, but there is no existing explanation for who, how or why the trilathons were cut moved and precisely fitted into place other than Sitchin’s explanation.
        When faced with such evidence, there is little else than Sitchin’s story which makes any sense at all to me.

  13. What we know for sure is that neither the Pyramids nor the Sphinx were built by the Kemi-Egyptians. That is to say Pharonic Egypt.

    Its really a very silly lie. They had not the capacity to do such a thing.

    My best guess is that the pyramids were built, mostly with leftover blocks used to deal with ice age coastal seas in a high-tech strictly coastal economy.

    When the disaster hit they would have been depopulated, but with still enourmous capital resources. Capital goods needing repairs. They would then have naturally wanted to re-establish their shipping based economy further inland. On the Nile.

    The Pyramids would have been built for some reason to do with protection against the next supernova.

  14. What disaster are you talking about? The Vela Supernova event is not a disaster on earth, or do you think there was something like a gamma ray burst?

    If you are, that doesn’t fit because there were no “hi tech” economies 12000 years ago.

    YEAH IT LOOKS LIKE THERE WERE. IT LOOKS LIKE THE VELA DISASTER WIPED THEM OUT. THE PYRAMIDS COULD NOT HAVE BEEN BUILT EXCEPT BY A HIGH-TECH SOCIETY. AND YET A HIGH-TECH SOCIETY WOULD NOT HAVE USED STONES TO BUILD THEM. THEREIN LIES THE PARADOX.

    THE PARADOX IS SOLVED BY FIGURING OUT THAT THE STONES MUST HAVE ALREADY, FOR THE MOST PART BEEN CUT FOR ANOTHER PURPOSE. LETS NOT BE RIDICULOUS ABOUT THIS. NO-ONE IS GOING TO CUT SIX MILLION BLOCKS JUST FOR A LARK.

    WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT ICE AGE OCEANS IS THAT THEY ARE MUCH MORE VARIABLE THEN INTERGLACIALS. HENCE A COASTAL ECONOMY CANNOT DEAL WITH THEM WITHOUT THE BIGGEST BLOCKS. NO OTHER USAGE IS PLAUSIBLE. THIS FANTASY THAT PEOPLE WOULD CUT OUT ALL THESE ROCKS ON THE BASIS OF A RELIGIOUS IMPULSE IS REALLY JUST SILLY. MEGALITHIC PHENOMENON THEREFORE COMES OUT OF THE DETRITUS OF A WRECKED COASTAL CIVILISATION.

  15. The Pyramids would have been built for some reason to do with protection against the next supernova.

    Protection by what mechanism? The chambers in the pyramids were sealed, so how would people be able to get in them to be protected? Protected from what exactly?

    This is all very strange.

    ITS ALL ABOUT “SHAPE POWER.” CHECK OUT SHAPE POWER WITH DAN DAVIDSION. NOW THE THING IS THE SOLUTION TO THE PYRAMIDS PHENOMENON IS GOING TO BE RIGHT OUT THERE. BECAUSE THEIR VERY EXISTENCE IS JUST SO ODD.

  16. Not only would the Vela supernova have been a disaster for earth. It would have been something close to an extinction event. It looked like it wiped out the last of the Mastodons for example.

    Yes there would have been a gamma ray burst for sure. But thats the least of our problems.

    Supervolcanos, massive earthquakes and tsunamis. This sort of thing. This may also have been when the giant meltwater lake in North America burst. I’ll check the timing of that.

    So we are talking more or less instantaneous Great Flood from which the Noah legend came no doubt.

    Economies would naturally develop to sea transport as time went on. We would more and more hug the coast. Because economic development involves the need for more inventories and the lengthening of the structure of production. Hence a greater premium on cheap transport, and the seas as warehouse would develop.

    Even now if we has no reason to believe the seas were threatening, as time went on we would wind up with our factories hugging the coast. Wherein income and dispatch were more or less straight into the water with unmanned boats re-arranging themselves so that stock showed up in the exact right sequence needed for use.

    In that way the productive capacity would become more and more pinned to the coast.

    So when the ice age ended with a great disaster, brought on by Vela, the survivors would be geared up only for sea transport production.

    So they would have all these blocks already cut for them but now underwater. Just a matter of moving their act inland up the Nile, away from the dangerous seas.

  17. What were millions of stone blocks previously used for?

    I ALREADY TOLD YOU. THE SEAS DURING THE GLACIAL PERIOD ARE HIGHLY VARIABLE. IF YOU WANT YOUR FACTORIES TO HAVE DISPATCH AND INCOMING VIA WHARVES YOU NEED BIG BLOCKS FOR THAT PURPOSE. TO HOLD BACK THE HIGHLY VARIABLE SEAS. NOT ONLY IS THAT WHAT YOU WOULD NEED YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE THEM. NOTHING ELSE WOULD DO. FURTHER TO THAT NO OTHER SENSIBLE REASON FOR HAVING THESE BLOCKS COULD BE THOUGHT OF FOR A HIGH-TECH SETUP.

    How did a supernova event trigger massive earthquakes and tsunamis? What is the mechanism for this?

    THINK ABOUT WHAT GRAVITY IS. YOU TELL ME WHAT GRAVITY IS.

    SEE EVERY SUPERNOVA IN WHAT WE TAKE TO BE HUMAN HISTORY. EVERY ONE VISIBLE WITH THE NAKED EYE. THEY ALL COME OUT OF THE GALACTIC CENTRE SHOCK-WAVE THAT TOUCHED OFF VELA. EACH SUPERNOVA IS A SOLAR SYSTEM DESTROYED. BUT YOU SEE EVERY LAST ONE OF THOSE DESTROYED SOLAR SYSTEMS CAME OUT OF THE SAME ROOT EVENT THAT INITIALLY TOUCHED OFF VELA.

  18. Funnily enough it would be Damon who has the skills to figure out if I’m right or not. Whether or not they all came from the same root cause like Paul LaViolette says.

    I cannot navigate my way around the galaxy to be able to check this claim.

    • Sorry to say, but the supernovas are something which I’ve not studied beyond reading some of LaViolette’s writing.
      Theory is that our Sun moves around the galactic center and up and down through the galactic plane in a sinusoidal movement with resulting catastrophic effect as the Sun and Solar System are near the plane.
      I have approached my line of thinking as more or less “line of sight” as in constructing a straight fence line rather than mathematically theoretical which is beyond my pay grade.
      That’s why I took my theory to a professor of astronomy who gave it some thought and then told me “Your orbit works”.
      That’s also why I took my story to Lloyd Pye who seemed to be one of the straightest shooters I know for bringing truth to the fore in some very hotly contested areas of discussion.
      My knowledge of physics and mathematical scenarios is too limited to be of much help with supernova discussion.

  19. What other civilizations were trading with this high tech society at this time? Why are there no records of this, either historical or archeological?

    WHAT DO YOU THINK THE PYRAMIDS ARE? WHAT WAS THE SEA LEVEL DURING THE ICE AGE? ARCHEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE FOR THIS SORT OF THING COMES UP FROM TIME TO TIME. BUT IS IMMEDIATELY DISMISSED OR INTERPRETED AWAY. HAVE YOU LOOKED INTO SUBMERGED REMNANTS OF COASTAL CITIES? THERE IS DEBATE AS TO WHETHER WHAT APPEARS TO BE SUCH REMNANTS ARE NATURAL FORMATIONS OR ARTIFICIAL.

    Had they developed the use and manufacturing of steel?

    I WOULD THINK THEY WOULD BE FURTHER DEVELOPED THEN WE ARE. SO IF THEY WEREN’T USING STEEL THEY MAY HAVE BEEN USING CARBON FIBRES OR OTHER MORE SOPHISTICATED STUFF. THE GREATER SOPHISTICATION AND GREATER COASTAL EMPHASIS GO HAND IN HAND BECAUSE OF THE PRINCIPLE OF THE LENGTHENING OF THE STRUCTURE OF PRODUCTION.

    THINK OF THE SURVIVORS AFTER THE SEVERAL DISASTERS? HOW WOULD THEY CONTINUE TO SURVIVE? THEY WOULD DO SO BY CANNIBALIZING THE CAPITAL GOODS OF THE PRE-CATASTROPHE CIVILISATION. THEY WOULD USE UP EVERY SCRAP BEFORE THEIR SECONDARY ECONOMY COLLAPSED AGAIN. THE REMNANTS WOULD ONLY BE THOSE BIG BLOCKS THAT THEY NO LONGER HAD THE ABILITY TO MOVE.


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