Posted by: graemebird | December 4, 2011

Latest Vandalised Posts.

I seldom think to copy the threads prior to that Jew Collaborator wiping all my contributions.  He mad a very good post on the ABC, based on one the thread-comments I made. He wiped that thread comment as soon as he could, and then he used it to make the first decent post on the ABC that he has made for a long time. Here is a thread I managed to retrieve. By the way, he GOES OUT OF HIS WAY TO WIPE POSTS, THAT PORTRAY ME AS PRO-ISRAEL AND NOT ANTI-SEMETIC.  I shit you not. These sort of posts trigger a wiping frenzy.  These people are nothing if not tactical:

 

  1. “Wall “swtreet” has very little money with the PIIGS, Monster.”

    You seem to be forgetting counter-party risk.

    Willfully.

    What is the baby talk all about? Its one cartel and they all go down together. If that was not the case then why was it so important for six central banks, to go in for another bailout just yesterday?

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 6:36 pm

  2. “They have the assets to pay back the loans, but not the willingness to do so by an assets sale.”

    The cheap money that they have now decided to create out of the six central banks. That will go out as loans. Where did the resources come from, to bail out the commercial banks in this way. It came from the public. It was stolen off the public.

    Now you say that the public needs to pay those loans back? Even thought the banks, having an excellent wicket going, could have diverted those extorted resources to wealth creating small businesses. But instead they decided to take the extorted funds and direct then to wealth destruction.

    Why ought they be paid back. Under WHOSE ethical theory? Name the philosopher.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 6:40 pm

  3. Name the philosopher

    .

    Cambria.

    Infidel Tiger

    2 Dec 11 at 6:45 pm

  4. I haven’t forgotten counter party risk Bird. On a net basis Wall Strweet appears not to be hugely exposed to the PIIGS.

    But let me get this right, it’s Wall Strweet’s fault the PIIGS are bust, is that right?

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 6:45 pm

  5. Bird

    Why do post comments here. You know you will always get re-banned.

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 6:47 pm

  6. Sure it’s irresponsible to default, but then there’s the irresponsible behaviour of lenders too.

    Show us one loan that was irresponsible and show us the credentials of the borrower, and the circumstances under which they applied for credit.

    If you don’t understand that banks don’t want to engage in risky lending except where moral hazard makes it attractive, you simp;y do not understand how banks work, that is, how asset & liability management works.

    .

    2 Dec 11 at 6:50 pm

  7. They have the assets to pay back the loans, but not the willingness to do so by an assets sale.

    They are scum. Jarrah has been sucked into some con job where they’ve “ran out of money”. They’re not down on their luck, they are swindlers who can pay their debts but just refuse to do so.

    .

    2 Dec 11 at 6:52 pm

  8. “Jarrah’s leftism: Sure its bad to be rob, but then some people practically beg to be robbed”

    No-one’s getting robbed.

    Jarrah

    2 Dec 11 at 6:52 pm

  9. “Show us one loan that was irresponsible”

    If you’re lending to people who can’t repay, that’s irresponsible to those whose funds you are lending out.

    Jarrah

    2 Dec 11 at 6:53 pm

  10. “I can’t believe you’re on a right wing blog advocating the irresponsible repudiation of debt, Terje. ”

    He’s not advocating the irresponsible repudiation of debt. He’s advocating the repudiation of debt. The debt cannot be paid back. Moreover, if there is trouble in paying a debt back, that is indicative of a bank, funnelling resources, to non-wealth-creating areas.

    So supposing a small businessman borrows one million, and becomes two million wealthier, as a result of the opportunities the loan opened up to him. Well it would be irresponsible not to come good with the loan. Because the banker proved he had the capacity to direct resources in wealth creating ways, and as well its not a big imposition for the small businessman to make good on honouring the loan.

    But if the bankers, buttressed by the central bank, divert most of societies resources to rubbish, then the loans cannot be paid back. Furthermore to pay those loans back would constitute a utilitarian disaster. Because the bankers, as proven failure, would only do the same again. So the cycle of wealth destruction can only be stopped, for good utilitarian reasons, by default.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 6:53 pm

  11. When a debtor has capacity to pay you but refuses and has a smokescreen of lies Jarrah, you will change your tune and indeed grow as an individual.

    Greece is that greedy, asset rich debtor fucking over the wide eyed optimistic young man that is the EU.

    .

    2 Dec 11 at 6:55 pm

  12. So supposing a small businessman borrows one million, and becomes two million wealthier, as a result of the opportunities the loan opened up to him. Well it would be irresponsible not to come good with the loan.

    This is Greece, which forces GS to lend to them if they want to have any custom in Greece. Greece also lies like hell about their finances.

    .

    2 Dec 11 at 7:00 pm

  13. Which “company” Carey?

    .

    2 Dec 11 at 7:01 pm

  14. “If you’re lending to people who can’t repay, that’s irresponsible to those whose funds you are lending out.”

    Absolutely and so well worded. The capital markets represent a sacred societal duty. Because we aren’t judgemental, and we don’t have the right to enforce savings, or tell people personally, that they aren’t saving enough.

    So there are only going to be so many resources left over from the current spending. There is only going to be so much deferral of current consumption. Its the deferral of current consumption …. this is the only thing that society has to work with to progress. Serious governments are by and large non-judgmental. But serious banking is always paternalistic.

    So for a bunch of numbers men, illegitimate children of Abbadabba Berman, to show up and take those scarce resources, and to lazily direct those resources towards non-wealth-creating undertakings …. this is a full-blown failure to live up to their sacred duty.

    And its one of two main reasons why the alleged free enterprise era has not fulfilled the great promise it was capable of. Except in third world countries who had high savings rates.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 7:02 pm

  15. “This is Greece, which forces GS to lend to them if they want to have any custom in Greece. Greece also lies like hell about their finances.”

    The victim. Goldman Sachs. The victim.

    There is no such entity as Greece. There is only Greek taxpayers, Greek public servants, and Greek politicians. The Greek taxpayers are the only people who are held to be responsible for bankers, who lack capacity in the specific undertaking of banking. But the Greek taxpayers had no part in the crime of sending scarce resources to wealth destruction.

    If a banker makes a loan that is not for the purpose of wealth creation, he has betrayed society, and he’s tempted Satan. Because most of the loans he’s made, are illegitimate in the first place. The bankers have already been given a nice little rort where they were able to claim more of the money creation resources then what the government had. Finding oneself having this nice little scam going, they ought to have not tempted fate and diverted those resources, to rubbish.

    Its akin to one endless stimulus package followed by another what these people get up to.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 7:09 pm

  16. “which forces GS to lend to them if they want to have any custom in Greece”

    According to libertarian precept, that is not force. Of course, that says more about the limitations of libertarian conceptions of force than it does about Greece.

    Jarrah

    2 Dec 11 at 7:14 pm

  17. Bird, Noah.. Da banks never lent any money, for the most part they were forced to hold bonds for legislated liquidity reasons.

    Goldman Sachs has lent any money to Greece you numbskull. They have little to no exposure to Greece.

    You’re an idiot.

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 7:19 pm

  18. “Greece is that greedy, asset rich debtor fucking over the wide eyed optimistic young man that is the EU.”

    Good Lord. You characterise these ageing fascists, and anti-democratic, former commie-collaborators, as constituting as one wide-eyed optimistic young man? These people are traitors. They unreconstructed slavery-lite bastards. They are all old jerks with a sense of entitlement, who don’t deserve to have a nurses aid wipe their ass in their dotage.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 7:19 pm

  19. According to libertarian precept, that is not force

    Yes it is. 1st world countries do not have such tyrannical and kleptomaniac rules, you are even more wrong considering dishonesty of the Greek Government.

    .

    2 Dec 11 at 7:22 pm

  20. “Bird, Noah.. Da banks never lent any money, for the most part they were forced to hold bonds for legislated liquidity reasons”

    No thats all lies. They agreed to lock in their incapacity in this way at Basel one, two and three. They are failures and incompetent bankers, and that is why you have Basel 1, then Basel 2. Then Basel 3. Its partly because they are useless and partly because they have the hidden agenda of ripping off the public. But no local government forces them to hold government debt anymore. Least of all Greek debt. That is a lie. They themselves write their own capital asset rules, in order to cut out competition.

    We really are talking the lowest usurping dogs in the universe.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 7:22 pm

  21. They unreconstructed slavery-lite bastards. They are all old jerks with a sense of entitlement, who don’t deserve to have a nurses aid wipe their ass in their dotage.

    I think you’re talking about Greece. What did the Czechs do to deserve this?

    .

    2 Dec 11 at 7:23 pm

  22. “Yes it is. 1st world countries do not have such tyrannical and kleptomaniac rules, you are even more wrong considering dishonesty of the Greek Government.”

    What has the existence of corrupt politicians and Keynesians, who are politicians, in Greece, got to do with the Greek taxpayer. Its the banks who run both the Greek and US politicians. That is all very clear. If it wasn’t clear before 2008 it is clear now.

    I don’t believe its like that in the rest of the world but initial impressions can be deceiving. Now a banker has taken over Greece, another Italy, we have a banker in New Zealand, we were close to having a banker running things in Australia.

    If they didn’t want Greece to default, they ought not have destroyed scarce resources in this way.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 7:26 pm

  23. Do tell Carey.

    .

    2 Dec 11 at 7:27 pm

  24. Its the banks who run both the Greek and US politicians.

    I have better things to do than converse with a fuckhead who thinks that the Queen, bankers and reptilians run the world from a secret basement in Idaho.

    ‘night.

    .

    2 Dec 11 at 7:28 pm

  25. “Yes it is.”

    Conditions in voluntary contracts are force now, are they? LOL

    Jarrah

    2 Dec 11 at 7:29 pm

  26. Of course, the austerity crowd in Greece counts fascists among their numbers:

    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/11/mark-ames-austerity-fascism-in-greece-%E2%80%93-the-real-1-doctrine.html

    And thus continues the long association between quisliterians and the far-right.

    THR

    2 Dec 11 at 7:30 pm

  27. Its the banks who run both the Greek and US politicians. That is all very clear. If it wasn’t clear before 2008 it is clear now.

    Yea? Top 5 holder aren’t banks, you lunatic.

    http://sangvinatsos.blogspot.com/2011/07/top-greek-bond-holders.html

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 7:33 pm

  28. Conditions in voluntary contracts are force now, are they? LOL

    The same logic says income tax is voluntary Jarrah. You are obviously and embarrassingly wrong.

    Of course, the austerity crowd in Greece counts fascists among their numbers:

    Don’t tell Homer.

    Counter intuitive isn’t it how LDP types confuse bankers and government with the people, the majority.

    Bird did that you insane fuckwit.

    .

    2 Dec 11 at 7:35 pm

  29. And JC does have a point you know. He reminded us that you used to be a cheerleader for the EU, pronouncing it more libertarian than the USA.

    Jason – that is a silly lie. I have noted both upside and downside with the EU. The upside is a common currency and no tariffs. I’ve noted the lack of a centralised tax code as one thing superior to the USA. The downside has also been readily noted. Lot’s of socialist member states. Lot’s of stupid EU rules. A basic disregard for democratic principles.

    TerjeP

    2 Dec 11 at 7:35 pm

  30. Bullshit. You are a liar. No libertarian supports bank bail outs.

    You are basically scum, Carey.

    .

    2 Dec 11 at 7:42 pm

  31. “I have better things to do than converse with a fuckhead who thinks that the Queen, bankers and reptilians run the world from a secret basement in Idaho.”

    Does she always react in this way? I have no way to divine what little Missy is on about.

    But the reality is that bankers who know what they are doing lend to people, such that the loan itself will create enough extra cash flow, for that loan to be easily paid off. So good banking, everywhere and always, is of necessity, paternalistic.

    This means that bankers, have to be the better exponents of business understanding than any other outfits, rivalling even the business consultants.

    For those who think otherwise, you would have to explain how it is that banking alone defies the ideas of Adam Smiths invisible hand. How is it that in the Misean way of thinking all players in a free economy are not in conflict of interest with each other …. but we see bankers directing scarce resources to wealth destruction, putting them in a conflict of interest WITH US ALL? With the species itself?

    Loans ought come in two forms. Familial short-term, and wealth creating. The familial short-term loans ought to be paid back quickly, the wealth creating loans ought to be paid back easily.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 7:42 pm

  32. Counter intuitive isn’t it how LDP types confuse bankers and government with the people, the majority.

    Carey, I don’t think you know what you’re talking about.

    daddy dave

    2 Dec 11 at 7:43 pm

  33. I can’t believe you’re on a right wing blog advocating the irresponsible repudiation of debt, Terje. Might as well advocate theft and property destruction while you’re at it.

    I’ve also done it on left wing blogs. I don’t think it is irresponsible. I don’t think it is theft. It is called bankruptcy. Taxing the Greeks into the ground to pay off an insurmountable debt is much closer to theft. The taxpayers had far less choice compared to the lenders. Inflating away debts (both public and private) not to mention savings by implementing a new inflationary currency is more like theft. However leaving aside the moral issue an orderly default (getting harder by the day) is the best way forward in terms of consequnces.

    Also it is a lie to say lenders were forced to lend to the Greek goverment. EU laws required banks to lend to EU governments but all governments were regarded as equal in this regard. Lendering banks still had a choice between lending to the Germans and lending to the Greeks. And not all lenders were banks. You are making too much of the excuses offered by the banking sector.

    TerjeP

    2 Dec 11 at 7:45 pm

  34. No it’s not a lie at all. You were frequently posting swill about the greatness of the EU and how it was a wonderful concept.

    In fact you’re lying by saying it isn’t true.

    The upside is a common currency and no tariffs.

    The common currency has worked a treat, yea? If you say so yourself.

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 7:45 pm

  35. Does she always react in this way? I have no way to divine what little Missy is on about.

    It means you belong Springer, you colossal fuckhead, Bird.

    There is no point in trying to reason with freaks like you Graeme. You are obviously in need of psychiatric help. I have better things to do.

    .

    2 Dec 11 at 7:47 pm

  36. You are making too much of the excuses offered by the banking sector.

    Wht excuses have the banks made, Turge?

    list them?

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 7:47 pm

  37. You were frequently posting swill about the greatness of the EU and how it was a wonderful concept.

    From memory that’s not quite right. I think his carelessly worded comments were misinterpreted and there was a long discussion about it.

    daddy dave

    2 Dec 11 at 7:48 pm

  38. Taxing the Greeks into the ground to pay off an insurmountable debt is much closer to theft.

    This is bullshit Taya. They CAN pay but are unwilling. They have had two years to sort this out so waffling on about fire sales and transactions costs is bollocks. The Greek Government are the scum that belong on Operation Repo. Why can’t they undertake austerity measures?

    In a democracy, don’t you get the Government you deserve?

    .

    2 Dec 11 at 7:49 pm

  39. How is it that in the Misean way of thinking all players in a free economy are not in conflict of interest with each other …. but we see bankers directing scarce resources to wealth destruction, putting them in a conflict of interest WITH US ALL? With the species itself?

    You have no idea about Misean ways you grandiose imposter. You wish to abolish the banking system and set up some absurd aquaculture regime. Get bent.

    .

    2 Dec 11 at 7:51 pm

  40. Dad

    Were you involved in comments over at Thoughts of Freedom?

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 7:56 pm

  41. “Bullshit. You are a liar. No libertarian supports bank bail outs.

    You are basically scum, Carey.”

    In practice it seems that many, if not most, non-Austrian, libertarians were soft on the bank-stealing. If we go to the Government Accountability Office we see double digit trillions were misplaced to help out the bankers, and next to no protest arose outside Austrian economic circles. Quite the contrary.

    Today Henry Ergas has a piece in the Australian alleging that there will be a shipping industry subsidies. A wide range of shipping industry subsidies. I have yet to confirm whether he is correct. But where has Henry protested against the daily interest subsidy to the banks? Where do non-Austrian economists protest all the special privileges to the banks?

    And where do these other economists admit that these subsidies will cause the same problems that all subsidies always cause? Rent-seeking. Agency problems. Over-compensation. Promotion on the basis of characteristics other than performance. Gross misallocation of resources to the point of basically throwing resources away?

    There seems to be a code of silence when it comes to economists applying their principles to the banks. They can apply their ideas to shipping, but not to banking. They have to break free of their group think, or we have to do so without them, or we have to go down into a world of poverty, starvation, violence and slavery.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 7:56 pm

  42. Where do non-Austrian economists protest all the special privileges to the banks?

    Private banking. Every libertarian here supports free banking, you dishonest lunatic.

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 7:58 pm

  43. Yea phil, you fat slanderous venom filled trannie.

    You and Bird aren’t going to blast anyone out of the water. The only thing you;re doing is having an olive bath.

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 8:01 pm

  44. “This is bullshit Taya. They CAN pay but are unwilling.”

    If they could pay they must not. You are claiming here that the central banks can pass off 24 trillion in cheap credit, to indebt everyone else, and so grasp their assets?

    Get serious. Who are they going to give the assets too. You mean give over the water supply to Goldman Sachs? The free market declared Goldman Sachs destroyed and gone, and now you want them to have the Greek water supply? Merril Lynch? Merril Lynch was broke and now you want them to be the owner of some Greek Islands?

    You want JP Morgan to own Greek power cables and power poles, even though the market spoke against JP Morgan but 24 trillion in stolen credit speaks in their favour.

    This is insanity, and ignorance, coming from a school of thought that was always in contempt of legal understanding or ethical theory.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 8:02 pm

  45. No it’s not a lie at all. You were frequently posting swill about the greatness of the EU and how it was a wonderful concept.

    Yes it is a lie. My support for the EU was never general. I merely noted things about the EU that were good. And I was always quite specific. Nowhere have I ever said that the EU is more libertarian than the US in any general sense. Portugal has more liberal drug laws than Australia but pointing that out is not the same as saying portugal is more libertarian than Australia. Likewise pointing out that the EU has a more decentralised tax system than the US is not the same as saying the EU is more libertarian than the US. Suggesting that I have said so is a malicious lie.

    TerjeP

    2 Dec 11 at 8:02 pm

  46. JC. Are you in favour of subsidising banks yes or no?

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 8:03 pm

  47. “Private banking. Every libertarian here supports free banking, you dishonest lunatic.”

    They always support the status quo.

    JC. Are you in favour of subsidising banks, yes or no?

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 8:04 pm

  48. Were you involved in comments over at Thoughts of Freedom?

    Other than your article abusing Sukrit the threads are still all there. So go find a reference scooter. Meanwhile stop fibbing.

    TerjeP

    2 Dec 11 at 8:05 pm

  49. “The same logic says income tax is voluntary Jarrah. ”

    How the fuck..? No it doesn’t. Your contention is that people were ‘forced’ to lend to Greece’s government because otherwise they couldn’t access Greek markets, right? So one of the many, many places they could put their money had onerous rules on that investments. That’s completely different to tax, which is imposed by a monopolistic wielder of force in the geographical area where you live, regardless of your choice in the matter.

    Jarrah

    2 Dec 11 at 8:09 pm

  50. “Of course, the austerity crowd in Greece counts fascists among their numbers:”

    You are just confusing the issue THR. The Greeks must default on all debts to all foreign banks. But they ALSO must run surpluses, and some of that surplus must be allocated to pay off some non-bank creditors on a strictly compassionate basis. But the Greeks have to run surpluses. And they can do so if the banks stop trying to entrap them by sending them more loan money, and then turning around to steal off the taxpayer, to make up for making wealth-destroying loans.

    If anyone cannot see that this is a big racket, then you might find on your next IQ test that things have gone horribly wrong.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 8:09 pm

  51. “They always support the status quo.”

    Don’t be ridiculous.

    Jarrah

    2 Dec 11 at 8:09 pm

  52. JC. Are you in favour of subsidising banks yes or no. I’ve seen already that you are not in favour of subsidies to various green projects.

    How about banks?

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 8:11 pm

  53. “Don’t be ridiculous.”

    In my experience, non-Austrian people who CALL THEMSELVES libertarian, are in favour of current arrangements. Sometimes they lie and say some nonsense about free banking. Taya, may even be serious about that, but none of the others.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 8:12 pm

  54. It’s not a lie and it’s certainly not a malicious lie. It’s simply recalling what you said and you;re even supportive things right now by saying:

    “The upside is a common currency”

    The common currency has in fact brought Europe to its knees and the only people who would doubt it in the entire world are you Bird and his Trannie.

    Furthermore this is an outright lie.

    I’ve also done it on left wing blogs. I don’t think it is irresponsible. I don’t think it is theft. It is called bankruptcy. Taxing the Greeks into the ground to pay off an insurmountable debt is much closer to theft. The taxpayers had far less choice compared to the lenders.

    You haven’t just been told once but numerous times that Greece has about E300 billion in disposable assets yet you ignore it and continue on as though the comment wasn’t made, which means you’re intellectually dishonest.

    Let me repeat it so it doesn’t come up again. Greece has around E300 billion in assets they can sell to repay the debt. They are in fact one of the most asset rich states in the west, but you prefer those assets are ignored and the debt repaid.
    This is rotten to the core.

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 8:13 pm

  55. JC are you in favour of subsidising banks yes or no?

    And if yes, why banks, and why not other outfits. Myself I think that all subsidies, or nearly all subsidies, are a disaster. But somehow you don’t seem to think that this economic law applied to banks.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 8:14 pm

  56. No bird, I would prefer free banking.
    Please stop asking stupid questions again.

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 8:14 pm

  57. “It’s not a lie and it’s certainly not a malicious lie. It’s simply recalling what you said and you;re even supportive things right now by saying:

    “The upside is a common currency”

    The common currency has in fact brought Europe to its knees and the only people who would doubt it in the entire world are you Bird and his Trannie.

    Furthermore this is an outright lie.”

    JC are you in favour of subsidising bankers yes or no.

    And since we know that without subsidy, all the bankers would have gone out of business, in 2008, how is it that they have a right to take possession of Greek taxpayer assets, on the strength of the 24 trillion dollars in cheap credit that they extorted off the public?

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 8:15 pm

  58. oops

    you’re even supportive of related things right now by saying:

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 8:18 pm

  59. Lets go again. You’ve supported every banker bailout, and every banker subsidy that has ever come about.

    So are you in favour of banker subsidies yes or no?

    “No bird, I would prefer free banking.”

    You see this Jarrah? I WASN’T wrong. When they say this they are always lying. So I wasn’t pulling your chain.

    Try again.

    JC.

    Having supported every bailout so far, as well as yesterdays, will you admit to being in favour of banker subsidies?

    Yes or no?

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 8:18 pm

  60. Jarrah, when you hear the free banking lie from Humphreys, JC, and Soon you MUST recognise if for what it is.

    Taya is an exception. Taya is really sincere about this silliness. The others are liars.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    JC.

    Having supported every bailout so far, as well as yesterdays, will you admit to being in favour of banker subsidies?

    Yes or no?

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 8:20 pm

  61. Bird

    This is the last time I’m engaging with you. the answer is no, I don’t support any form of subsidy, now fuck off.

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 8:23 pm

  62. Don’t you think its about time you stopped hanging around here, attempting to pervert libertarian sentiment, you worthless piece of pond-scum?
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I’ll try again:

    JC.

    Having supported every bailout so far, as well as yesterdays, will you admit to being in favour of banker subsidies?

    Yes or no?

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 8:23 pm

  63. Okay;

    Let’s play this game…

    Bird have you peddled the idea that the mass of the population should be moved 100′s of miles inland.

    Yes or no, you vermin. Have you? yes or no?

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 8:27 pm

  64. In comment 3 at the following discussion JC reveals he did initially support bailouts:-

    http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/02/04/the-accidental-genius-of-obama/

    TerjeP

    2 Dec 11 at 8:36 pm

  65. An obvious lie. Me, you and Bird all know that sea transport is the cheapest for heavy cargo, and therefore for deindustrialization, and wealth production. Deserts and mountain ranges keep us apart, whereas the oceans bring us together. Oceans are free infrastructure with little maintenance cost.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    JC.

    Having supported every bailout so far, as well as yesterdays, will you admit to being in favour of banker subsidies?

    Yes or no?

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 8:37 pm

  66. Turge,

    Of course I supported the bailouts at the time and said so many times. There’s nothing hidden in what I said.

    However, unlike you I don’t hide behind lies and dishonesty cloud up the waters.

    You supported the structure of the EU. We’ve had numerous arguments about it and you’re now too cowardly to admit it.

    Now, get back to the last comment I left for you and try to respond to it instead of slinking away by taking up Bird’s bullshit.

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 8:40 pm

  67. “In comment 3 at the following discussion JC reveals he did initially support bailouts:-

    http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/02/04/the-accidental-genius-of-obama/
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    This is all old news. There isn’t a banker enrichment scheme he hasn’t supported. Not even once in three years.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I”m getting sick of these banksters, whether through conspiracy or cultural perversion, showing up on all these blogs, and basically getting in the way of real solutions. Solutions that are hard-minded and good hearted at once.

    So lets go again:

    JC.

    Having supported every bailout so far, as well as yesterdays, will you admit to being in favour of banker subsidies?

    Yes or no?

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 8:40 pm

  68. You really are a disgrace, Turge. An absolute disgrace.

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 8:41 pm

  69. “You really are a disgrace, Turge. An absolute disgrace.”

    lets go again:

    JC.

    Having supported every bailout so far, as well as yesterdays, will you admit to being in favour of banker subsidies?

    Yes or no?

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 8:42 pm

  70. JC – you really are a jerk. An abusive, rude, arrogant, annoying, tiresome jerk.

    :-)

    TerjeP

    2 Dec 11 at 8:43 pm

  71. “JC – you really are a jerk. An abusive, rude, arrogant, annoying, tiresome jerk.”

    Yes, but he’s our abusive, rude, arrogant, annoying, tiresome jerk.

    Jarrah

    2 Dec 11 at 8:45 pm

  72. Now without the bailouts you supported the bankers would not be around to start trying to steal the Greek islands, the Greek water supply, Greek roads, Greek power-poles, and so forth off the Greeks? Yes or no?

    So why weren’t those 24 trillion funnelled towards me? Why aren’t I now able to claim Greek islands?

    You see we don’t want to be ethical retards about matters like this? At least I wouldn’t have misdirected funds as badly as the bankers did. And I’d only give free leases of Greek islands one year at a time, and only to the first fifty females of my choosing.

    So these guys were broke. They were bailed out, which you agreed with. And now you are saying that they deserve a Greek island or two each.

    Somewhere you were playing hooky when it came to ethics classes.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 8:47 pm

  73. Jarrah – Yeah okay there is that. And we love him for it. But he is a jerk still.

    TerjeP

    2 Dec 11 at 8:47 pm

  74. “Yes, but he’s our abusive, rude, arrogant, annoying, tiresome jerk.”

    Attempt not to act like a sodomite wannabe and cut loose from this fellow. He is poison. He is here to mislead you and to guide you into the wilderness of soft tyranny and slavery-lite.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 8:48 pm

  75. “Jarrah – Yeah okay there is that. And we love him for it. But he is a jerk still.”

    Tayapayattention. This is the first time I’ve seen you really stick up for yourself against vermin like this. Don’t be watering it down. Elections aren’t coming up for awhile.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 8:53 pm

  76. “JC just got creamed and some folk felt guilty.

    Funny lot we are.”

    Yeah I used to feel bad about giving him a hard time. And I didn’t feel bad enough about other people I’d stomped on. But one has to harden oneself, because JC won’t reform. And the world is being so badly gang banged financially, and it has to stop. So if JC is going to get in the way of the stopping of this disaster, running as it is in full momentum, then JC has got to be utterly steamrolled…….

    … in the nicest possible way.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 8:57 pm

  77. Turge;

    Let’s be straight here. I’m only half the annoying prick you are.

    In fact I pale in comparison.

    You present sludge (here), as though you speak with authority on stuff like this and have the expertise of Bird on one of his stupid days. You completely muddy up the waters on any of these discussions and you’re dishonest to boot.

    How may times have you been told Told the Greeks have 300 billion is assets which they can dispose of if they so choose, yet you continue to ignore it as though it was never said. You creep.

    How many times? And you then continue bolivating about the poor little Greek peasant and how hard up he is despite the fact that it was the little Greek peasant that voted for the government which lied through its teeth to get at the Euro credit rating so as to borrow more.

    How many times have you been told?

    And then there’s the sludge you continue to argue suggesting the Euro has been a success when as I said earlier the only three people that would say such a thing are you Bird and his trannie. In fact I wouldn’t imagine Bird’s trannie to say such a stupid thing, so that leaves the two of you.

    And basically you troll.

    Your first comment that started this was the stupidily inane …. :

    Greece should default on it’s public debt. It should have done it before now but it is still the least worst option.

    They’ve already defaulted and it’s either that you don’t know that or you’re simply trolling. Personally I reckon it’s a little of both.

    Lastly anyone who pretends to know anything about monetary economics after admitting to be Jude Wanniski follower and proud of it is a crank.

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 9:01 pm

  78. JC just got creamed and some folk felt guilty.

    Phil, you wish. However I’m sure Birdie would be mortified. But it ain’t going to happen as I’ve told you numerous times.

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 9:04 pm

  79. “They’ve already defaulted ….”

    No you are lying again. The Greeks WILL default, as will the Japanese, and the Americans. But the Greeks are yet to default and there is one reason and one reason only for this. And that is because the bankers continue to take scarce resources and throw them away in an orgy of wealth destruction. They continue to destroy wealth by lending Greece money. The moment the wealth destruction stops the Greeks will default.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    JC.

    Having supported every bailout so far, as well as yesterdays, will you admit to being in favour of banker subsidies?

    Yes or no?

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 9:10 pm

  80. No you are lying again.

    You see why you get banned Bird. That’s because you’re a moron with a keybaord.

    The Greeks have to all intents and purposes defaulted. They are negotiating with the EU on the haircut the private holders will incur and they are currently living off the largesse of the EU closely supervised by auditors to ensure the money is disbursed correctly and their budgets is properly controlled as no one trusts them.

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 9:14 pm

  81. How many times? And you then continue bolivating about the poor little Greek peasant and how hard up he is despite the fact that it was the little Greek peasant that voted for the government which lied through its teeth to get at the Euro credit rating so as to borrow more.

    Do you even listen to yourself. This is what your narrative essentially amounts to:-

    Bankers couldn’t tell that the Greek government was fiddling the books and borrowing too much and they deserve to be forgiven and protected as they were duped. But those evil peasants. They knew. They were in on the conspiracy. The peasants plotted to rip off the bankers and land themselves in insurmountable debt.

    TerjeP

    2 Dec 11 at 9:17 pm

  82. Yesterday six central banks got together in a conspiracy to funnel out further trillions of cheap loans out to commercial banks in the US and Europe. These loans will steal real resources from the non-bank community and enrich the bankers, and the people with first access to these subsidised loans.

    Nothing of this sort can ever solve the problems. This latest theft is adding a great deal more debt to a situation that is suffering from too much debt. This latest thieving will impoverish the non-bank community further, and the banks will be back for more handouts, since half the reason the bankers faced problems, was because the non-bank community was too impoverished to pay back the ponzi-loans they had already been ponzi-lent.

    So impoverishing the non-bank community still more, and getting them into still more debt, can never solve this situation. And now we finally see, being played out in front of our eyes, the real reasons that fiat money, always returns to the value, of the digital paper its not printed on.

    Yesterday was just one more attack on the non-bank community and on the value of currencies. Always we must recognise that the answer to a debt problem is LESS DEBT.

    The answer to too much debt is LESS DEBT. Always and everywhere the salvation from too much debt must be less debt. Or otherwise the same amount of debt, and extra cash to help pay the debt off, leading to less debt. Or preferably a lot of the first and a little bit of the latter.

    But we see only the bankers trying to tell us that the answer to too much debt is more debt. There is no reforming THEM. We must rather reform ourselves. There is no teaching THEM, we must rather learn the truth ourselves.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 9:24 pm

  83. Oh so it’s a religious thing to you Turje. The bankers need to be punished. These are the bankers that are forced to hold bonds to maintain their liquidity ratio. So it’s perfectly okay with you their shareholders get royally reamed but not the Greek state, which has enough assets to support the commitment.

    And it’s not just the bankers by the way.

    You seem to believe that even though they have the assets to meet the debt they shouldn’t dispose of them and pay down their debt. Why?

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 9:28 pm

  84. Bird.. STFU as you don’t know what you are talking about. Trust me, if the CB’s don’t ease liquidity in the system you will be out of a job soon enough.

    There is a chronic Dollar shortage in Europe at the moment that is seriously threatening the entire banking system and the CBs eased dollar liquidity rates.

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 9:31 pm

  85. “Bankers couldn’t tell that the Greek government was fiddling the books and borrowing too much and they deserve to be forgiven and protected as they were duped. But those evil peasants. They knew. They were in on the conspiracy. The peasants plotted to rip off the bankers and land themselves in insurmountable debt.”

    Hahahahaha. Yeah. Goldman Sachs. The victim. They come here and take a mild socialist project, with pretty good justification if it were to remain humble, and they turn it into an off-book NBN extravaganza that will haunt every one of us for decades to come if we don’t default on it. They go to Greek politicians and take an income stream. Say a toll-road. The lawyers draw up all the documents. They convert the income stream to a cash payment, and that is immediately wasted on an untenable public service.

    Next its Merrill Lynch and Rothschild in Greece-I-Meant-Queensland. They take the entire railroad, tracks and all, cash it out, this is immediately wasted on an untenable public service.

    Goldman Sachs the victim. Merryl Lynch the victim. Rothschild the victim. And at least two of these three wouldn’t even be around post-2008 were it not for bankers corrupting the politicians and stealing trillions on loan.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 9:31 pm

  86. JC, stop arguing with Bird. It’s futile.

    daddy dave

    2 Dec 11 at 9:35 pm

  87. Lol… you’re right Dad.

    Seeya Bird.

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 9:36 pm

  88. JC – I’m not against bankers. I just think it is ridiculous that you imply that bankers were duped into thinking the Greek government was doing okay, duped into lending them far too much, and yet Mr Peasant knew the truth all along. You actually think Mr Peasant is culpable for the actions of the Greek government. Yet the bankers are victims.

    TerjeP

    2 Dec 11 at 9:36 pm

  89. “Bird.. STFU as you don’t know what you are talking about. Trust me, if the CB’s don’t ease liquidity in the system you will be out of a job soon enough.”

    “Ease liquidity” You just blabber mate. You don’t even understand the words you are saying.

    SO YOU JUST CONFESSED TO BELIEVING IN BANKER SUBSIDY.

    Easing liquidity means flushing in cash, by paying off debt, and raising the reserve asset ratio, to stop the extra cash becoming inflationary.

    Stop using jargon phrases, that mean all things to all people. Talk about things you understand or stop typing.

    You have now asserted that a debt problem is to be solved BY INCREASING DEBT. You have now reaffirmed yet again, that there isn’t a banker subsidy that you won’t support.

    Clearly you are pond-scum.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 9:36 pm

  90. “Seeya Bird.”

    Stop typing. You are an idiot. As is the collaborator Daddy Dave.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 9:37 pm

  91. “JC – I’m not against bankers. ”

    You should be. Against all the big shot, non-regional bankers. Not the retail level, and not commercial banking (as opposed to corporate finance) because its only commercial banking that does anything useful.

    The rest are utterly corrupted. Not as out there and obviously venal and mentally deficient like JC. But corrupted even as Daddy Dave, another banker, is corrupted. Or Andrew Reynolds. They are all corrupted and none of them can remember how a competent (and paternalistic) banker is supposed to behave.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 9:40 pm

  92. No I don’t believe Mr Peasant understood, however he helped vote in a government which did so in a democratic system, as far as I been explained the voters are responsible for their government’s debt. You seem to think they aren’t for some inexplicable reason.

    Secondly, the Greek government lied and concealed their real position and the real numbers came out when Merkel demanded an audit.

    Governments are not firms that are forced into standardized disclosure, so what they say is what you have to go with.

    You still don’t seem to get the point that the banks are forced to buy government bonds to meet liquidity ratios.

    JC

    2 Dec 11 at 9:41 pm

  93. I have nothing against Daddy Dave. And I like Andrew Reynolds. Or at least I like his online rendition given I have never met him.

    TerjeP

    2 Dec 11 at 9:43 pm

  94. They are getting in the way. So you’ve got to be strong. You’ve got to recognise their persistent malevolence for what it is.

    A debt problem can only be solved with less debt. Under the classical gold standard the money supply would fall but the monetary base would generally rise, after the crunch started. By the end of the problem the ponzi money might wind up as only 60% with the gold money at maybe 40%. The debt was wiped out through bankruptcy, and the pain was eased by more gold. So in this nasty way the solution to too much debt was found through less debt.

    As you know I don’t approve of the gold fractional reserve standard. But you can see right here why it was so head-and-shoulders superior to what we have now. Because now there is no way out. Because these guys keep insisting that the answer to too much debt is more debt, WITHOUT RESOLUTION. So while we all know that the fiat money must implode we haven’t necessarily seen why. But here we have it. They will always decide that the answer to too much debt is more debt, and there will be no stopping them until all the digital money and paper money is worthless.

    Look at JC. Is there any stopping this mania?

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 10:01 pm

  95. “You still don’t seem to get the point that the banks are forced to buy government bonds to meet liquidity ratios.”

    You filthy liar. Third parties we have been over this before and JC is lying. He knows full well he is lying. The reality is that the bankers decide these things themselves at Basel without democratic input. They are running their own regulations. I even reminded JC of this and he’s still willing to lie about it.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 10:03 pm

  96. Noah, how’d you get all those beasts on your boat?

    Infidel Tiger

    2 Dec 11 at 10:09 pm

  97. For fucksakes I get this all the time. Like we had to carry every fucking type of bacteria, in pairs, and all that.

    We took the seeds and the farm animals. As any reasonable person would. Seeds and farm animals. About six of each. Not every fuckig animal. Who do you think I am. The flood was part of the quaternary extinction. It wiped out all the megafauna. You think I’m going to go to all that trouble to make an uncap sizeable boat, when I’m such an old cunt, just so I can invite a short-faced bear, and his sheila on, to rip the place apart and eat everything and everyone?

    The megafauna all died. Many smaller species survived. I just got the useful farm animals on board.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 10:17 pm

  98. The avian is back.

    Another survivor of the great flood, evidently.

    Rabz

    2 Dec 11 at 10:24 pm

  99. Hey Noah, that time you got drunk of your ass and caused all manner of family troubles is one of my favourite bible stories. Seriously, what the hell were you doing?

    Infidel Tiger

    2 Dec 11 at 10:27 pm

  100. I suppose after building a boat and rescuing all those species a man deserves a moment to let his hair down.

    Infidel Tiger

    2 Dec 11 at 10:28 pm

  101. You are talking about a distant descendant who tried to play possum, as if he didn’t know what his girls were up too.

    “Oh I’m such an old drunk coot I don’t know my own daughters when they are up close and sweaty….”

    All the old dodges and excuses. There is nothing the kids won’t try on.

    Noah

    2 Dec 11 at 10:39 pm

  102. How the fuck..? No it doesn’t. Your contention is that people were ‘forced’ to lend to Greece’s government because otherwise they couldn’t access Greek markets, right? So one of the many, many places they could put their money had onerous rules on that investments. That’s completely different to tax, which is imposed by a monopolistic wielder of force in the geographical area where you live, regardless of your choice in the matter.

    Yes, but…well I think I was wrong but only because on further examination, what the Greek Government did was worse. The Greek Government enforced both an unbound credit rationing to itself and lied about any genuinely attractive lending proposition. In fact it is far worse than any tax.

    “It’s not coercive to force below market rates and loan volumes to go to Government to allow you to lend money to our citizens”

    Really Jarrah? You may as well say the FIRB isn’t coercive. Why are you trying so hard to blame bankers when they were lied to and bullied into these loans?

    .

    2 Dec 11 at 11:03 pm

  103. You stupid prick Graeme. You still don’t understand what MV = PY means. Yet you purport to have an economics degree.

    You are a charlatan.

    .

    2 Dec 11 at 11:04 pm

  104. A debt problem can only be solved with less debt. Under the classical gold standard the money supply would fall but the monetary base would generally rise, after the crunch started. By the end of the problem the ponzi money might wind up as only 60% with the gold money at maybe 40%. The debt was wiped out through bankruptcy, and the pain was eased by more gold.

    In plainer English?

    Sean

    2 Dec 11 at 11:05 pm

  105. In plainer English?

    He’s as mad as a hatter.

    Rabz

    2 Dec 11 at 11:10 pm

  106. There is a whiff of olive oil on this thread

    Tal

    2 Dec 11 at 11:26 pm

  107. In plain English? When the SHTF, gold rises in value and fiat rises in volume.

    Fiat is valued in faith. As faith is lost, so is value, and people seek wealth – real stuff – rather than money.

    And sure, GS may not hold loans – but they issued CDS. Guess who figured out the terms of the ‘default’. Guess who didn’t have to pay up when the debt was only ‘technically’ written down? Guess who has now been installed as technocratic ‘government’ in both Italy and Greece?

    Driftforge

    2 Dec 11 at 11:46 pm

  108. Bankers couldn’t tell that the Greek government was fiddling the books and borrowing too much and they deserve to be forgiven and protected as they were duped. But those evil peasants. They knew. They were in on the conspiracy. The peasants plotted to rip off the bankers and land themselves in insurmountable debt.

    1. Bankers and the EU who were charged with monitoring the member countries’ debt/GDP ratios and deficit/GDP ratios.

    As policeman/regulator and the body that imposed those standards as a condition of ongoing membership of the eurozone there was an assumption positively fostered over the decade that the EU acted as guarantor.

    Such was the widespread implicit acceptance of this that Greek, Italian and German bonds were priced the same whilst before the eurozone’s existence, they were markedly different

    2.Greece is a republic, the government is representative and duly elected by the people.

    The people are therefor responsible for government debt.

    3. The investors in Greek bonds are actually mostly the people of Europe and people internationally (~ 8%) thru various central/reserve national banks loans and purchases of bonds.

    Besides stock-market registered publicly funded banks, there were also bought by stock-market registered publicly funded insurance companies and managed pension funds

    Your ignorance would be breathtaking TerjeP but I’ve been reading your drivel for a couple of months now and such silliness is the norm.

    And really…why do you call urself a libertarian?

    JamesK

    3 Dec 11 at 12:15 am

  109. James,

    You’d possibly be better off expending your energies elsewhere – i.e. not on this thread.

    Arguing with the avian is one of the world’s most pointless activitahs.

    But don’t take my word for it.

    BTW, we’re all over at the ‘open thread’.

    Rabz

    3 Dec 11 at 12:21 am

  110. there was an assumption positively fostered over the decade that the EU acted as guarantor.

    Now would be a good time to set the record straight. Greece should default. There should be no guarantor. If people assumed something different that was a mistake.

    TerjeP

    3 Dec 11 at 6:22 am

  111. “It’s not coercive to force below market rates and loan volumes to go to Government to allow you to lend money to our citizens”

    Really Jarrah?

    I didn’t say that, or anything close to it. No-one in this whole thread said it. Where did you get that quote?

    Jarrah

    3 Dec 11 at 8:07 am

  112. Yes Jarrah clearly I don’t reckon you actually said that but that’s what I think your argument is. I really reckon that this is a lot worse than taxation.

    I’e said this before. The time will come when you get a creditor etc that won’t pay up. Then you will have a pretty cynical view of the Greeks.

    There is nothing voluntary about the Greek situation. The voluntary side of the activity is what goes on between GS and all the other Greek borrowers/clients. The coercive part is the guarantee of a line of credit. Clearly there is also a deceptive aspect to the Greek Government borrowing as well.

    You might argue that every transaction in Australia is affected by taxation except that it doesn’t require cut prices for Government and a “sorry guys, we lied” payment at the end of the year.

    .

    3 Dec 11 at 8:26 am

  113. Greece should default.

    You’re speaking to a question long resolved, TerjeP.

    And the assumption wasn’t merely a ‘mistake’ however much you care to deny reality.

    JamesK

    3 Dec 11 at 2:16 pm

  114. It’s like a spam Bot, James. No matter how many times you or anyone else tells him they have defaulted he keeps repeating the same redundant thing.

    JC

    3 Dec 11 at 2:18 pm

  115. What is it about these dimwitted people that they always blame you for their own lack of capacity. Its not my fault sharrrn. I blame your Mother. Its just tragic these days, that rich older blokes, water down their seed with young airheads.

    I SEZ:

    “A debt problem can only be solved with less debt. Under the classical gold standard the money supply would fall but the monetary base would generally rise, after the crunch started. By the end of the problem the ponzi money might wind up as only 60% with the gold money at maybe 40%. The debt was wiped out through bankruptcy, and the pain was eased by more gold.”

    DUMMY SEZ:

    “In plainer English?”

    SO IS SEZ:

    So its my fault that you aren’t that bright? if that wasn’t the implication of your idiotic “question” then why didn’t you hone in you fuckwit, on what it was that you were having difficulty with.

    Once again, this time for stupid here:

    “A debt problem can only be solved with less debt. GOING TOO FAST FOR YOU SHARN?

    Under the classical gold standard the money supply would fall but the monetary base would generally rise, after the crunch started.

    A LITTLE TOO QUICK FOR YOUR MENTAL CAPACITY SHARN?

    By the end of the problem the ponzi money might wind up as only 60% with the gold money at maybe 40%.

    I SUPPOSE YOU ARE JUST WAY LOST AT THIS POINT HUH SHARRN?

    The debt was wiped out through bankruptcy, and the pain was eased by more gold.

    ANYTHING I SAY HERE WILL BE SUPERFLUOUS.

    Stop blaming your native stupidity and lack of knowledge on other people, and if you wish to learn something ask an honest question. Are any of you public servants NOT morons?

    There used to be a time when people asked honest questions. Not tried to be smart-arses with questions that are not real questions.

    Noah

    3 Dec 11 at 4:20 pm

  116. “Arguing with the avian is one of the world’s most pointless activitahs.”

    You may consider yourself a libertarian, but you will never hide the smell of public servant that comes off you. It stands out like a blue star tattoo. I don’t know where you are coming from, but it appears that you think if someone lent me 24 trillion dollars in cheap credit, stolen off the public, and I used that same credit, to destroy those resources stolen, in the hope of taking peoples freedom, that you’d want to give me the Greek islands, rather than have me tortured to death.

    Get remedial catchup lessons in ethics now.

    Noah

    3 Dec 11 at 4:39 pm

  117. A subtly, yet expensively perfumed lady of leisure. A “kept woman.”

    Noah

    3 Dec 11 at 4:52 pm

  118. Get remedial catchup lessons in ethics now.

    Indeed Graeme. Open up your home to Occupy protesters and declare bankruptcy, you are in league with the fractional reserve banksters. How dare you take out a loan on less than 100% reserve?

    .

    3 Dec 11 at 4:55 pm

  119. There are 300 million odd people in the United States. The central bank has subsidised the international banking cartel, by one estimate, at 24 trillion. Thats 24 trillion in subsidised loans from a single central bank, Another estimate involving the European central bank, and the UK central bank (I’m assuming) as well, came out at 37 trillion. But since the estimate I’m talking about is to do with the US central bank, we ought just stick to that figure and the US population.

    24 trillion divided by 300 million is 80,000 per capita. So the scope of the heist is akin to giving every person in the US the option of borrowing 80,000 in cash, at 0-1% interest.

    Bloomberg is a deceiving dog. He attempted to mislead everyone by putting the heist at 1.2 trillion dollars. He’s one of them the filth. The small print is that the 1.2 trillion dollars WAS FOR A SINGLE DAY.

    Now supposing every American was given 80,000 cash at 0-1% interest? Naturally we assume that there is no fractional reserve, or this would imply hyperinflation. They could keep it at home, but if the banks wanted it at term they would have to offer decent interest. In order to pay the decent interest, they may have to invest in wealth-producing activities. Does anyone remember small business? Or is small business now beneath you people?

    Start thinking about what the banks have done and whether you really believe that Greek islands, Greek water, Greek power lines, Greek roads, belong to them. Greek offshore fishing rights. Greek tourism monopoly on now public land? Greek airports and flyover rights.

    You people are so twisted and unjust you make me want to spew. Consider castration, ethical remedial catchup lessons, or exercising your right to euthanasia. I point out some of these figures, merely as a starting point, to give you deep thinkers a bit of perspective.

    Noah

    3 Dec 11 at 6:20 pm

  120. You people are so twisted and unjust you make me want to spew. Consider castration, ethical remedial catchup lessons, or exercising your right to euthanasia. I point out some of these figures, merely as a starting point, to give you deep thinkers a bit of perspective.

    I choose anything other than castration or remedial catchup in one of your re-education camps, Bird.

    JC

    3 Dec 11 at 6:22 pm

  121. Consider what a bunch of bludging parasites you people are. The equivalent of an interest free, virtually, cash loan for every man woman and child in the US of 80,000. That is the subsidy you expect, and you want more .

    Just kill yourself JC. Before you get another handout, just hang yourself. All it takes is a tie and the womens toilet.

    Noah

    3 Dec 11 at 6:24 pm

  122. So let me get this straight. I steal 24 trillion in interest free loans, use it partly to destroy wealth via getting the Greeks in hock, and for that I deserve to own Greece.

    You are not even an abortion. You are the infected scraped-off afterbirth of an abortion. You are scrapage off the side of a five-dollar whorehouse wall.

    Noah

    3 Dec 11 at 6:27 pm

  123. You are small potatoes.

    Noah

    3 Dec 11 at 6:28 pm

  124. Now would be a good time to set the record straight. Greece should default.

    I agree with Terje.
    Austerity won’t work at present, they simply can’t do it politically.
    The problem with asset sales is that it just kicks the can down the road, again.

    daddy dave

    3 Dec 11 at 6:30 pm

  125. Good.

    Noah

    3 Dec 11 at 6:34 pm

  126. The problem with asset sales is that it just kicks the can down the road, again.

    No.

    You think they’re going to change their constitution if they default?

    .

    3 Dec 11 at 6:35 pm

  127. If they sell assets, they will just continue on the same unsustainable path. Eventually they’ll run out of things to sell, and end up right back at the same place, except with less assets.

    daddy dave

    3 Dec 11 at 6:38 pm

  128. I could say the same about defaulting too, save for having the country run by a liquidator.

    .

    3 Dec 11 at 6:39 pm

  129. But a default will force them into austerity. The money stream will dry up.

    daddy dave

    3 Dec 11 at 6:41 pm

  130. Like any scumbag debtor with assets they hide, I doubt it.

    I hope your right.

    .

    3 Dec 11 at 6:45 pm

  131. Dad

    It really doesn’t matter what they do fiscally.if monetary policy is not accommodative they will all bumble around from failure to hideous failure.

    They’re all coming out with reform packages by the 9th so let’s see what they’ll come up with.

    Jc

    3 Dec 11 at 7:12 pm

  132. they will all bumble around from failure to hideous failure.

    There is a good chance of that regardless.

    The argument for devaluation is that it pushes down sticky wage costs. However cutting the payroll tax does the same thing. Even if you’re into austerity they could cut payroll tax and increase VAT and even whilst collecting the same revenue real wage costs (and real after tax wages) would be down. Adjustments via the tax system can deliver wage cuts much more effectively than devaluation. And it avoids inflation.

    TerjeP

    3 Dec 11 at 7:35 pm

  133. That’s fine. they can do that, however the entire zone needs easier monetary policy.

    Here.

    http://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/re-targeting-the-fed

    They’ve all experienced a collapse in NGDP. IF my hunch is right a large reason for this collapse has been that the ECB has been far too tight. Those idiots were raising rates in May.

    You can cut payroll tax to zero, but it still doesn’t remove the fact that the entire is a quagmire of acne employment rules and regulations.

    JC

    3 Dec 11 at 7:54 pm

  134. “You think they’re going to change their constitution if they default?”

    I know for a 100% absolute FACT that they will change the constitution if they default. That happens surely as night follows day. Wealth destruction ends when default begins.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    “That’s fine. they can do that, however the entire zone needs easier monetary policy.”

    Get it through your thick head that you cannot CANNOT solve a debt problem with more debt. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

    Noah

    3 Dec 11 at 8:09 pm

  135. Lets make it clear for those who don’t understand. They could WELL have “accommodative monetary policy.” But this is not what JC means. They could well have accommodative monetary policy, consisting of flushing in huge amounts of Euros, by paying off debt, and having a reserve asset ratio hike, to stop the extra cash becoming too inflationary. They could do this and yes it would help.

    But JC is only talking about YET ANOTHER BANKER SCAM, to increase debt, and subsidise bankers. That is what he means by “monetary policy.”

    Noah

    3 Dec 11 at 8:13 pm

  136. Whereas you are talking about a sovereign debt scam.

    .

    3 Dec 11 at 8:17 pm

  137. No no. Don’t be an idiot dot. We are trying to get through JC’s thick head that a debt crisis, cannot be solved by more debt, which is why a new bailout comes like clockwork every month. We are trying to get it through JC’s thick head that too much debt can never be solved by more debt. And the last thing we need is you being an idiot to get in the way of this task.

    Noah

    3 Dec 11 at 8:19 pm

  138. Noah, you seem to be taking the side of the fat wop Greek public servants? Why are you letting them off the hook?

    Infidel Tiger

    3 Dec 11 at 8:21 pm

  139. They can too. 1/3 of the State owned real estate assets could pay off their debts. They are simply reprobate debtors.

    You simply think it is moral to walk into a bank and rob the bank, but bank’s should even exist.

    Please produce evidence of your economics degree by 5 pm tomorrow.

    .

    3 Dec 11 at 8:21 pm

  140. shouldn’t

    .

    3 Dec 11 at 8:22 pm

  141. “Noah, you seem to be taking the side of the fat wop Greek public servants? Why are you letting them off the hook?”

    But Infidel. These ethical nitwits that you seem to like trading pleasantries with aren’t asking FAT WOP GREEK PUBLIC SERVANTS to pay the money back. Take the politicians who sold the Greeks out to Goldman Sachs. Put a bag over their head, whack them in their fat stomachs with a baseball bat, sell up all their gear, and if it isn’t enough send them to jail. But don’t hurt the Greek taxpayer.

    That is where these guys are retarded morally. Its the Greek politicians, and to a lesser extent the Greek public servants, that collaborated with this banker-filth. But your amigos are not asking them to pay up. Your amigos are asking the Greek taxpayer to pay up, and for the Greek children to lose their paternity. But the Greek taxpayer and the Greek kids are innocent of collaboration with these welfare recipient bankers.

    Noah

    3 Dec 11 at 8:30 pm

  142. But don’t hurt the Greek taxpayer.

    All three of them.

    It’s possible to hate banks and simultaneously think the Greeks are fat slobs who should be horse whipped and then dragged arse backwards through a thorn bush.

    Infidel Tiger

    3 Dec 11 at 8:34 pm

  143. “You simply think it is moral to walk into a bank and rob the bank, but bank’s should even exist.”

    The banks robbed the public. 37 trillion. In the American case they robbed an 80,000 loan at 0-1% interest taken from every man, woman and child in America. For the Europeans its a little bit less but not an whole lot less.

    I cannot believe that you are so fucking stupid that you think this massive intervention is okay. If I did it would it be okay? If I bought up all the politicians, and the Fed loaned me 24 trillion to fuck with the Greeks, how does that entitle me to the Greek islands? You just got to take you ethical philosophy pill, and your anti-insanity drugs, and have a rethink.

    Noah

    3 Dec 11 at 8:34 pm

  144. “All three of them.”

    No you are lying. The Greek taxpayer, and the Greek kids had nothing to do with this. And you are claiming that its the Greek taxpayer and the Greek kids who have to give me Greece, on the basis of a 24 trillion dollar subsidy I got because you people are stupid and i bought all the politicians.

    Noah

    3 Dec 11 at 8:36 pm

  145. This has to be Jew partisanship that is motivating catallaxians here. Because from an ethical standpoint its insanity. Need I point out to you that the majority of bankers are not Jews. Its just pointless to support these filth, on the basis that you think its your tribe you are supporting. They are hurting all of us. You catallaxians have got to stop thinking along these lines because the bankers are raping all of you as well.

    Noah

    3 Dec 11 at 8:39 pm

  146. So you reckon Gold Sacks is pocketing wait for it:

    $61 trillion dollars?

    .

    3 Dec 11 at 8:41 pm

  147. This has to be Jew partisanship that is motivating catallaxians here.

    Ban this fuck knuckle now.

    May the Davidsonian crozier protect us little lambs.

    Kyrie eleison.

    .

    3 Dec 11 at 8:42 pm

  148. No you clod. I already told you. There is no place for your stupidity here dot. We need to convince JC, and everyone else, that no debt crisis can EVER be solved by more debt. Not now, not anytime in the past, nor any time in the future.

    Noah

    3 Dec 11 at 8:43 pm

  149. There has to be. I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt. You people CANNOT be this stupid. You are dumb, lacking in intellectual gifts, and so forth. But you cannot be THIS stupid. So there has to be racist partisanship going on here.

    Noah

    3 Dec 11 at 8:44 pm

  150. people stop arguing with Bird.

    daddy dave

    3 Dec 11 at 8:46 pm

  151. There is not much doubt about it. The Catallaxians are acting like all bankers are Jews and sticking up for them beyond all reason. The reality is that a minority of these people are Jews.

    No other explanation fits, but the racist one.

    Noah

    3 Dec 11 at 8:47 pm

  152. There has to be. I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt. You people CANNOT be this stupid. You are dumb, lacking in intellectual gifts, and so forth. But you cannot be THIS stupid. So there has to be racist partisanship going on here.

    Produce evidence of your alleged bachelor’s level degree in economics by 5 pm ADST tomorrow.

    .

    3 Dec 11 at 8:48 pm

  153. There is not much doubt about it. The Catallaxians are acting like all bankers are Jews and sticking up for them beyond all reason. The reality is that a minority of these people are Jews.

    No other explanation fits, but the racist one.

    Yes Graeme like how the Nazis put Jews into protective custody. You monstrous fuckwit.

    .

    3 Dec 11 at 8:49 pm

  154. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA You really are a dummy aren’t you dot? Yes you are.

    No the reality is that Jewish ethnocentricity is a thing of legend, and they all know it. This amounts to the only explanation we have for the ethical and economic primitivism, we see on this particular thread.

    Noah

    3 Dec 11 at 8:50 pm


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