Posted by: graemebird | December 4, 2011

To Sort And Edit Later

  1. You? An economist? Good Lord. Well I suppose this was to be expected.

    Noah

    3 Dec 11 at 8:49 pm

  2. Rabz, pay someone to do it ya tight-fisted prick, it’s almost Xmas, Some need the money more :)

    jumpnmcar

    3 Dec 11 at 8:51 pm

  3. Graeme,

    Sliver off to the inbred little hamlet you came from in Aotearoa where Jew baiting is acceptable.

    .

    3 Dec 11 at 8:56 pm

  4. “Graeme,

    Sliver off to the inbred little hamlet you came from in Aotearoa where Jew baiting is acceptable.”

    Jew-baiting has never been acceptable in New Zealand. Withdraw that slur against the country of New Zealand you cad. Or I’ll sick our own anti-defamation league onto you.

    Withdraw I sez. Save your feeble, and dishonest insults for Noah.

    Noah

    3 Dec 11 at 9:01 pm

  5. Yes Graeme, I’m sure they’ll frickin’ lurve the “Brother Nathaniel” horseshit on your cesspit blog.

    .

    3 Dec 11 at 9:18 pm

  6. I do apologise, Dot (and Sinc).

    In my previous profession you quickly got desensitised to mild images like that.

    Again, apologies.

    Mk50
    Brisbane

    Mk50 of Brisbane

    3 Dec 11 at 9:33 pm

  7. Hey, c’mon.

    That pic of Preshizzle (TM Paco) Obungler riding a girl’s bike is hyper-manly compared to his pantywaist predecessor.

    Ask any lefty.

    And look at the nancy bike Bush rides!

    :)

    Mk50
    Brisbane

    Mk50 of Brisbane

    3 Dec 11 at 9:51 pm

  8. M0nty STILL isn’t claiming that sodomy is just as safe as hetero sex, is he? What a weird, anti-science, obscurantist buffoon he is.

    Fisky

    3 Dec 11 at 9:55 pm

  9. Bunyip’s back:

    THE Age today republishes a story that first went to print 40 years ago…Can anyone read writer Roger Aldridge’s pungent words from so long ago and not be reminded how bland, anodyne and entirely predictable the Age and its writers have become?

    Read on. http://bunyipitude.blogspot.com/2011/12/age-as-it-was.html#comment-form

    Gab

    3 Dec 11 at 10:04 pm

  10. Not to worry – I had seen those pictures before, but a warning to the more squeamish was probably in order.

    Sinclair Davidson

    3 Dec 11 at 10:36 pm

  11. Torpedo,

    I’ve seen some pretty awful stuff but with forewarning and the deaths of children or infants is always disturbing.

    .

    3 Dec 11 at 10:55 pm

  12. In my previous profession you quickly got desensitised to mild imageslike that.

    You call a picture of dead children a “mild image”?
    You need your head read.

    daddy dave

    3 Dec 11 at 11:00 pm

  13. DD. You have absolutely no idea what my work has entailed in the past. I am no longer in that area of work, having moved on. The work was fascinating and yes, those images are mild. Very mild.

    The ‘holy warriors’ so praised by animals like Michael Moore ran any number of torture/murder centres in various places. Kids, women, men, babes in arms. Few survived them, and they videotaped a lot of it. The Fogels died fast. Others die by inches on video, with sound effects. Those who analyse such things get desensitised, it’s a defensive mechanism. One factoid – in ultimate extremis, people do not scream. They make a froglike noise.

    The ones I truly admire – it’s not work I could ever do in a million years – are the guys who work TSEC. I know one who cracked a really, really bad UN-run ring operating in the Congo. Kids. Belgians. Snuff. Cannibalism. Video.

    You connect the dots.

    Mk50
    Brisbane

    Mk50 of Brisbane

    3 Dec 11 at 11:40 pm

  14. My bad. TSEC = trafficking and sexual exploitation of children.

    Mk50 of Brisbane

    3 Dec 11 at 11:41 pm

  15. Andy Stern is an idiot

    Why?

    Andy Stern believes that the Chinese economic model is superior to what he calls the “conservative-preferred, free-market fundamentalist, shareholder-only model.” Having spent the day in Chongqing, Stern sees the sprawling city as indicative of China’s success.

    Stern writes:

    America needs to embrace a plan for growth and innovation, with a streamlined government as a partner with the private sector. Economic revolutions require institutions to change and maybe make history, because if they stick to the status quo they soon become history. Our great country, which sparked and wants to lead this global revolution, needs a forward looking, long-term economic plan.

    Reply:

    To really learn from the Chinese, and to enjoy such staggering growth rates, we should go about things differently: let’s have a Maoist insurrection followed by a civil war that lasts for several years. Then let’s destroy most of the wealth in the country, and drive out millions of our most enterprising and educated citizens by launching systematic terror campaigns during which millions of others will die in violence or of starvation. Next, let’s have a modest economic opening in coastal regions: impoverished citizens will be allowed to launch small-scale township and village enterprises and components will be assembled in a handful of cities by our stunted descendants. Then let’s severely curb those township and village enterprises because they represent a potential political threat and invite large foreign multinationals and state-owned enterprises [let’s not forget those!] to work our population to the bone at artificially suppressed wage rates, threatening those who complain with serious reprisals up to and including death. Let us also initiate a population control policy designed to improve our dependency ratio for a few decades. As large numbers of workers shift from low-value agricultural work to manufacturing, we will experience … rapid growth! Mind you, getting from here to there will involve destroying an enormous swathe of our present-day GDP. And that sectoral shift from rural to urban work will run out of gas pretty fast, as will the population control policy that will guarantee rapid aging.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/284634/andy-sterns-peculiar-idea-reihan-salam

    JC

    4 Dec 11 at 1:15 am

  16. Sean

    4 Dec 11 at 1:36 am

  17. Worst President ever:

    Obama Administration Lashes Out at Israel for It’s Growing Isolation – After US Supported Overthrow of Friendly Regimes.

    Defense Secretary Leon Panetta called on Israel Friday to “reach out and mend fences” with Turkey, Egypt and other security partners in the Middle East, saying he is troubled by the Jewish state’s growing isolation in the volatile region…

    In a speech at a Brookings Institution forum, Panetta said that while Israel is not solely responsible for its isolation, it could more actively attempt to reverse the trend.

    I wonder why Israel is ‘isolated’ in that region.

    What could be causing it?

    C.L.

    4 Dec 11 at 3:03 am

  18. Jezza Clarkson in more trouble for branding selfish suiciders “selfish”:

    http://bigpondnews.com/articles/World/2011/12/03/Train_suicide_is_selfish-_Clarkson_692502.html

    Britain is almost more screwed up than our screwed up toilet of a country.

    Infidel Tiger

    4 Dec 11 at 3:26 am

  19. British Top Gear presenter Jeremy Clarkson is embroiled in further controversy after branding people who throw themselves under trains as ‘selfish’.

    The 51-year-old, who was forced to apologise this week after saying all striking workers should be shot, reiterated his view that those who commit suicide at railway stations cause ‘immense’ disruption for commuters.

    In his column in The Sun newspaper, Clarkson said: ‘I have the deepest sympathy for anyone whose life is so mangled and messed up that they believe death’s icy embrace will be better.

    ‘However, every year around 200 people decide that the best way to go is by hurling themselves in front of a speeding train. In some ways they are right. This method has a 90 per cent success rate and it’s extremely quick.

    ‘However, it is a very selfish way to go because the disruption it causes is immense. And think what it’s like for the poor train driver who sees you lying on the line and can do absolutely nothing to avoid a collision.’

    Couple of points:

    1) We live now in the age of the “forced” “apology” – which is, of course, not really an apology. There are few things that anger me more than “calls” for somebody to apologise. If he or she doesn’t want to apologise, what is the point of “forcing” an “apology”? NEVER apologise if you meant what you said and said what you meant.

    2) It’s absolutely true that train suicides traumatise dozens – perhaps hundreds – of people (children included) and train drivers are especially vulnerable to sickening shock.

    C.L.

    4 Dec 11 at 3:34 am

  20. Sexual harrassment:

    A 7-year-old boy has been accused of sexual harassment after punching a fellow first-grader in the groin, but the boy’s mother says he was acting in self-defense.

    Tasha Lynch told The Boston Globe that her son, Mark Curran, was being choked during the Nov. 22 incident on a school bus, and has been afraid to go back to school in South Boston ever since…

    “Any kind of inappropriate touching would fall under that category,’’ school spokesman Matthew Wilder said to The Globe. “The school administration is conducting a full investigation that has not concluded yet. Certainly, once that investigation is through, we’ll then make a final conclusion as to who will be disciplined and how.’’

    Tynan Elementary School Principal Leslie Gant didn’t believe that Mark was acting out of self-defense, Lynch told The Globe.

    “She said, ‘It doesn’t matter who hit who first,’ ’’ Lynch said. “‘He said he hit him in the testicles. That’s assault. That’s sexual assault.’”

    From the dying, leftist-destroyed empire of America.

    C.L.

    4 Dec 11 at 3:41 am

  21. Is that a women’s bike?

    Dude needs it to maintain knee contact while riding.

    Abu Chowdah

    4 Dec 11 at 3:47 am

  22. Rudd always gets his revenge – always:

    Humilated Kevin Rudd plots a leadership coup.

    KEVIN Rudd still has “the ticker” to tackle Julia Gillard for the prime ministership and is preparing to challenge within months.
    Despite a belief that Mr Rudd’s ambitions had been put on ice following a recent turnaround in fortunes for Julia Gillard, supporters of the deposed PM want him to move on her before next year’s Budget in May.

    “Kevin has never wanted for ticker when it comes to taking on the leadership,” one Labor MP told the Sunday Herald Sun.

    Mr Rudd’s resolve is said to have firmed after being humiliated at the ALP national conference.

    Despite dragging Labor out of 13 years of opposition in 2007, Mr Rudd’s brief period as prime minister was deliberately wiped from history by Ms Gillard in her opening address.

    Mr Rudd’s backers were infuriated and disgusted by the very public snub.

    Despite Gillard Cabinet euphoria that the year had ended on a high with the defection of Peter Slipper and the passage of the mining tax, Mr Rudd’s supporters insist the leadership issue has not been laid to rest.

    “This will all come to a natural head before the next Budget,” a Labor MP said. “Gillard will never go anywhere by her own volition. So it will have to be done by other means.

    C.L.

    4 Dec 11 at 4:12 am

  23. I’ve never understood how you lot can think saying “but Muslims do it too!!” advances your argument. Bigotry, prejudice and barbarism are not acceptable no matter what the race or creed.

    m0nty

    4 Dec 11 at 4:41 am

  24. monty, can you please drop the ‘you lot’ approach. It is tiresome.

    Boris

    4 Dec 11 at 5:01 am

  25. “””Cain drops out of US presidential race”””

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-12-04/cain-suspends-us-presidential-campaign/3711342

    jumpnmcar

    4 Dec 11 at 6:39 am

  26. I’ve never understood how you lot can think saying “but Muslims do it too!!” advances your argument. Bigotry, prejudice and barbarism are not acceptable no matter what the race or creed.

    Well yes it does advance the argument in a sense by forcing you to take positions that you otherwise would rather not endorse, or to run up the white flag. It is not enough for you to concede the point and then go back to the default choice of banning only things that offend you personally. Only consistent, simultaneous, and full-throated denunciations will be acceptable.

    Fisky

    4 Dec 11 at 6:42 am

  27. Or else you will be denounced, purged and jet-planed.

    Fisky

    4 Dec 11 at 6:43 am

  28. In a democracy, you get the government you deserve.

    “”””Independent Salafist presidential candidate Hazem Abou Ismail told a television interviewer this week that he would prevent “men and women from sitting together in public,” press reports said.”””
    http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/Africa/Islamists-sweep-Egypt-elections/Article1-777376.aspx

    jumpnmcar

    4 Dec 11 at 6:46 am

  29. “She said, ‘It doesn’t matter who hit who first,’ ’’ Lynch said. “‘He said he hit him in the testicles. That’s assault. That’s sexual assault.’”

    “She” is an idiot.

    .

    4 Dec 11 at 7:31 am

  30. Hazem Abou Ismali is right. There is nothing more disgusting than a 80 year old couple on their golden jubilee feeding ducks in the the park.

    Sickening shit.

    .

    4 Dec 11 at 7:58 am

  31. FFS,

    Poor kid, looks like a likely target for bullying.

    One of the first pieces of advice I give my children with regards to bullying is that bullies are cowards. A quick retribution will make them move onto other targets; one of the quickest ways to achieve this is a swift kick to the groin if required.

    duncan

    4 Dec 11 at 8:26 am

  32. For a very simple analysis of the ‘wonders of the Chinese economy’, lets compare with the piece split after the post-WWII civil war:

    China – US$8400
    Taiwan – US$35000

    Life expectancy
    China – 71(M)/75(F)
    Taiwan – 76(M)/82(F)

    (admittedly, its probably more realistic to compare just the coastal portions of China.. but I don’t expect the results to be much different)

    duncan

    4 Dec 11 at 8:35 am

  33. Yes Duncan but the wonder is post 1980 when they liberalised. You realise how many people died and how much economic collapse they had in the cultural revolution and great leap forward?

    Taiwan is actually a sterling example of how to run an economy. Probably a little too much industry policy and debt though.

    .

    4 Dec 11 at 8:41 am

  34. Family Court lets wealthy wife keep the lot

    by: Caroline Overington
    From:The Australian
    December 03, 2011

    It is taken as given that when a man gets divorced after 21 years he’s going to lose a chunk of whatever fortune he has made to his ex-wife.

    What, though, if it’s the wife who has made all the money? Does she lose half too?

    Not in every case, according to a recent judgment of the Family Court, which has allowed a wife to keep the bulk of the $4 million in assets she holds in her name, while leaving the husband with pretty much nothing.”

    Sauce for the goose is definitely not sauce for the gander. This case shows the man was financially foolish, but so are many of the wives who receive recompense from the Family Court. The Judgement also deems it relevant that he did not make her happy much!

    Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    4 Dec 11 at 8:48 am

  35. Dot.

    I presume you’re pointing out the great leaps they have made since 1980 (ie: the figures I listed were not great, but compared to previously, they’re outstanding) ?

    Yes, I agree.

    duncan

    4 Dec 11 at 8:55 am

  36. The work was fascinating and yes, those images are mild. Very mild.

    Dead children are never ‘mild.’
    If you think they are then your work has damaged you more than you realise.

    daddy dave

    4 Dec 11 at 8:55 am

  37. I was rather looking forward to the year’s last ‘Insiders’ this AM. Then I saw self-admitted narcotics user and promoter David Marr was on it.

    I’ll go and weed a garden bed instead of wasting my time watching Insiders.

    Mk50
    Brisbane

    Mk50 of Brisbane

    4 Dec 11 at 9:16 am

  38. DD – images are images. In such work you desensitise and work hard on your gallows humour. Go talk to any copper, intensive care nurse, ambo, sniper or firie. As I’ve said, there is infinitely worse out there. Nearly all of it’s related to paleosimian terrorist dirtbags like MILF, FARC, Taliban (they are the worst), but the cartels and yakuza are nearly as bad. It’s not ‘damaging’ in the sense I think you mean, they are just evidence in the form of images. You use data obtained from the images to do what has to be done in consequence.

    Mk50
    Brisbane

    Mk50 of Brisbane

    4 Dec 11 at 9:25 am

  39. Just back in town in time for the Bolt Report. How good is that!

    Rafe

    4 Dec 11 at 9:59 am

  40. Oh, yay. As Egypt turns to islamism, the kleptocrats move their loot offshore.

    Remember the Bamiyan Buddhas?

    How long before ancient Egypt’s ruins are also dynamited by these loons?

    This is a country that cannot feed itself and has no resources. Dark days ahead.

    Mk50
    Brisbane

    Mk50 of Brisbane

    4 Dec 11 at 10:20 am

  41. Lizzie’s post.

    Family Court lets wealthy wife keep the lot

    by: Caroline Overington
    From:The Australian
    December 03, 2011

    It is taken as given that when a man gets divorced after 21 years he’s going to lose a chunk of whatever fortune he has made to his ex-wife.

    What, though, if it’s the wife who has made all the money? Does she lose half too?

    Not in every case, according to a recent judgment of the Family Court, which has allowed a wife to keep the bulk of the $4 million in assets she holds in her name, while leaving the husband with pretty much nothing.”

    Sauce for the goose is definitely not sauce for the gander. This case shows the man was financially foolish, but so are many of the wives who receive recompense from the Family Court. The Judgement also deems it relevant that he did not make her happy much!

    Only advice to men. Do not get married under any circumstances. Do not entertain the idea and keep swapping’em to meet the criteria that that you are not in a relationship.

    JC

    4 Dec 11 at 10:56 am

  42. images are images. In such work you desensitise and work hard on your gallows humour.

    If you meant the word ‘mild’ as gallows humour, that’s different. Even so, images are never just images.

    daddy dave

    4 Dec 11 at 11:23 am

  43. Obama administration blames Jews for growth of anti-semitism, claims Muslim anti-semitism is understandable – unlike the Nazi one:

    The Weekly Standard reports:

    The U.S. ambassador to Belgium, Howard Gutman, recently told a conference hosted by the European Jewish Union that Israel is to blame for growing anti-Semitism harbored by people of Muslim faith.

    “A distinction should be made between traditional anti-Semitism, which should be condemned and Muslim hatred for Jews, which stems from the ongoing conflict between Israel and the Palestinians,” Gutman reportedly said, according to the Israeli newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth. “He also argued that an Israeli-Palestinian peace treaty will significantly diminish Muslim anti-Semitism.”

    According to the account in the Israeli paper, “The legal experts at the event were visibly stunned by Gutman’s words, and the next speaker offered a scathing rebuttal to the envoy’s remarks.”

    C.L.

    4 Dec 11 at 12:28 pm

  44. Wow. Even more anti-Jewish hatred from the Obama administration. They’re now ordering Israel to play nice with an organisation whose charter calls for the extermination of all Jews:

    The top U.S. defense official is warning Israel it cannot afford to further isolate itself from Arab neighbors in the Middle East.

    During a forum in Washington late Friday, U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said Israel needs to start by getting back “to the damn table”and negotiating peace with the Palestinians. He also called on Israel to mend its fraying relationships with traditional partners like Turkey, Egypt and Jordan.

    Some Israeli leaders have viewed the Arab Spring, and uprisings like the one that toppled long-time Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak, as a threat to regional stability as well as to Israel’s security. But Panetta urged Israeli officials to reject that way of thinking.

    C.L.

    4 Dec 11 at 12:40 pm

  45. squawkbox

    4 Dec 11 at 1:55 pm

  46. More lefty “sexual harrassment” news:

    A Gastonia mother says her son was suspended for calling a teacher “cute.”

    Chiquita Lockett said her 9-year-old son, Emanyea, spent the last two days at home.

    Lockett said the principal of Brookside Elementary called her Wednesday to say the incident was a form of “sexual harassment.”

    Emanyea told Eyewitness News a substitute teacher overheard him tell another student a teacher was cute.
    Then he was suspended.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2011/12/03/student-suspended-for-saying-teacher-was-cute/

    C.L.

    4 Dec 11 at 2:00 pm

  47. This one’s for Birdie to explain.

    Hey Bird, is this another sign of alien visitation.

    Giant penis mystery baffles Stockholm suburb

     

    JC

    4 Dec 11 at 2:36 pm

  48. Is there a possibility David Suzuki could can be arrested for crimes against humanity.. trying to scare the shit out of kids and boring the fuck out of adults.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/suzuki_holds_santa_hostage_donate_or_the_fat_man_gets_it/

    JC

    4 Dec 11 at 2:44 pm

  49. I thought this item at the Economist (looking at explanations for less inequality in the Netherlands compared to America) would be of interest to people here, but I don’t think anyone else has noted it yet.

  50. Emanyea told Eyewitness News a substitute teacher overheard him tell another student a teacher was cute.
    Then he was suspended.

    Eavesdropped comments count as harassment now?

    .

    4 Dec 11 at 2:55 pm

  51. Steve:

    that might be a huge revelation to you but people here have had those discussions for ages and the conclusion reached is that it’s wrong to compare the US to say Holland which is slightly bigger than a Caribbean island and has far less regional differences and a far more indigenous population than the US.

    Of course, you haven’t been able to keep up so it’s no wonder you’re raising what is essentially redundant at The Cat.

    JC

    4 Dec 11 at 3:03 pm

  52. Re the issue about the whether bureaucrats are stopping a researcher’s work on sea level rise from being published, the Department issued a press release that says this in part:

    Last year OEH withdrew papers from a coastal engineering conference in Shanghai as there had not been adequate peer review and in particular, adequate review of the methods of statistical analysis. Similarly a paper co-authored by Phil Watson from OEH on tide gauge record analysis was withdrawn from a conference in Perth in September this year. This was due to concerns raised by an independent statistician about the statistical analysis of tide gauge records in an earlier similar paper by Phil on the same topic. OEH arranged for a review of these concerns by the OEH statisticians, who agreed that the concerns raised by this independent statistician were valid and should be further considered.

    OEH is now working with CSIRO, the University of Tasmania and the University of Western Australia on a project to analyse all Australian long term tide gauge records. This project will fully consider various statistical methods and provide a statistically robust analysis of historical sea level rise around Australia. The project team includes coastal engineers, scientists and statisticians, including some of Australia’s pre-eminent experts in sea level rise. Both the reviewer and primary author of the paper withdrawn from the September conference are involved in this project. This project is expected to be completed by June next year and will provide Australia’s most detailed and statistically sound analysis of recorded sea level rise. The findings of this project will be made publicly available.

    The complaint has come from Doug Lord, Phil Watson’s co-author, yet it is appears that Watson ( I assume he is the lead author) is participating in the review of his work.

    Watson’s opinion on the take of Lord as to whether the review of the papers is justified or not would be good to know.

  53. looking at explanations for less inequality in the Netherlands compared to America

    Equality is for losers.

    Infidel Tiger

    4 Dec 11 at 3:10 pm

  54. It

    They’re fucking obsessed with it. Before a leftie goes to bed each night s/he counts his notes and coins and then wonders how much the neighbor has.

    It’s what they live for now as it goes to the core of leftism. Living in a row of hundreds of identical council flats, with the lights going out one hour after dusk to lower emissions is their idea of heaven on earth…. and public transport. lots of trains and buses carrying around the grey and bored is like heaven on earth.

    JC

    4 Dec 11 at 3:19 pm

  55. Well yes it does advance the argument in a sense by forcing you to take positions that you otherwise would rather not endorse, or to run up the white flag. It is not enough for you to concede the point and then go back to the default choice of banning only things that offend you personally. Only consistent, simultaneous, and full-throated denunciations will be acceptable.

    What “positions” that I would “rather not endorse”, Fisky? That parts of Islam are barbaric or backwards? Of course they are. So are parts of many religions. I’m not here as an apologist for Islam. It’s a bit weird that you assume I am.

    Just because Islam needs to come into the 21 century as well doesn’t mean you have licence to cling to Victorian values like fox hunting.

    m0nty

    4 Dec 11 at 3:27 pm

  56. monty, can you please drop the ‘you lot’ approach. It is tiresome.

    Boris, no. Unless you’d prefer a different compound noun. You jokers? You clown car? You shower?

    m0nty

    4 Dec 11 at 3:29 pm

  57. Ignore him Boris. He’s just an offensive little git.

    JC

    4 Dec 11 at 3:31 pm

  58. As opposed to JC, who is an offensive old git.

    m0nty

    4 Dec 11 at 3:34 pm

  59. Snap.

    Jarrah

    4 Dec 11 at 3:41 pm

  60. More lefty “sexual harrassment” news:

    The owner of the Rivers chain in Australian has been accused of sexual assault, including inter alia that “The woman, who is English, alleges Mr Goodman often called her ”honey bun” and ”bunny”.

    Oh my.

    Nic

    4 Dec 11 at 3:45 pm

  61. Rape, virtually.

    C.L.

    4 Dec 11 at 3:46 pm

  62. I’m closing my eyes. I can’ believe such a thing happened to that woman. The horror.

    JC

    4 Dec 11 at 3:46 pm

  63. Bunyip on Afghanistan – absolutely right:

    http://bunyipitude.blogspot.com/2011/12/sewer-that-is-afghanistan.html

    And a brilliant suggestion:

    Imagine, just for argument’s sake, that every male boat person arriving on our shores was sent not to a processing facility but to an Army base, where they would be trained, equipped and sent back to Afghanistan to fight for their own country’s future.

    C.L.

    4 Dec 11 at 3:47 pm

  64. Eavesdropped comments count as harassment now?

    Not much different to male colleagues emailing each other about the attractive females in the office. That’s harrassment too, don’t forget.

    daddy dave

    4 Dec 11 at 3:47 pm

  65. I can’t remember if the Norton and Ariely study from earlier this year was ever discussed on this blog (certainly, the search function indicates there was no post about it.)

    Its point – that Americans had poor understanding of wealth distribution and assumed it was more equal than it is (and also thought it should be like actual European figures) – is surely one that indicates the long term weakness of any Republicans who poo-poo the suggestion that the wealthy can afford to pay more in tax.

  66. Lifelong ‘conservative’ Steve is now advocating De Lage Landen socialism, higher taxes.

    C.L.

    4 Dec 11 at 3:51 pm

  67. Conservatives need to be realistic, CL. Part of realism includes an acknowledgement that there are limits to wealth inequality for a reasonably just and functioning society.

  68. Conservatives need to be realistic, CL. Part of realism includes an acknowledgement that there are limits to wealth inequality for a reasonably just and functioning society.

    So we’ll make things even by making the rich poorer?

    You are a sexually, economically and politically confused dildo.

    Infidel Tiger

    4 Dec 11 at 3:59 pm

  69. Steve, you have to wary of such studies. When given a choice, Americans did prefer Sweden’s distribution of wealth. But while they would prefer that distribution if we just had to wave a magic wand, once you start suggesting actual policies to bring it about, you would find that support for the more egalitarian outcome plummets. That’s because they recognise that whatever problems inequality might bring, the problems of re-distribution are usually bigger.

    Jarrah

    4 Dec 11 at 4:04 pm

  70. Jarrah, that’s a fair enough comment.

    I don’t know that it addresses my point, however, that it strongly suggests a substantial body of Americans do not actually want a less progressive tax system.

    Cain’s 9-9-9, with its reduction in tax to the rich and increase in tax for the rest, would have been especially un-sellable.

  71. That’s because they recognise that whatever problems inequality might bring, the problems of re-distribution are usually bigger.

    Sweden and Germany are doing okay, how’s the US doing? I know what Steve is referring too but for myself the interesting point was how many USA citizens thought their country had a much flatter distribution of wealth than was the case. The issue in relation to the US distribution of wealth is that the trend has been going on for too long. Surely “good economics” should have as its goal a less pointed curve? Steve is right, if the trend continues eventually there will be rioting in the streets.

    John H.

    4 Dec 11 at 4:17 pm

  72. Bunyip on Afghanistan – absolutely right

    Well half right.

    I agree that the asylum shoppers should be trained and sent back to Afghanistan to fight. That would be a sure way to stop the boats.

    I disagree that Australia should leave Afghanistan. I am a believer in the old fashioned concept of waging war to win. Not for “nation building” or “rebuilding” (as if the dump was ever built in the first place). While Australia on its own won’t win the war, I believe that the operational experience gained fighting it is of immense value to the ADF and bodes well for the future.

    In fact I believe Australia should increase its commitment. In all likelihood more soldiers will die, but it is only a relatively small amount and they are all volunteers and know the risks.

    There is also the added benefit that the greater the commitment to Afghanistan, the lesser the commitment to socially engineer the ADF, which seems to be a passion of the current crop of military and civilian leaders.

    The longer we are there, the better off the ADF will be.

    jupes

    4 Dec 11 at 4:18 pm

  73. Part of realism includes an acknowledgement that there are limits to wealth inequality for a reasonably just and functioning society.

    Crap.

    If the poor increase their wealth by 50% and the rich increase their wealth by 100% then everyone is better off but wealth inequality has increased.

    jupes

    4 Dec 11 at 4:24 pm

  74. “Steve is right, if the trend continues eventually there will be rioting in the streets.”

    I agree. Part of my support for a very limited redistribution of wealth (rather than anarcho-capitalist abolishment of all welfare) is because history shows that very stark differences in wealth/power lead to attempts at violent social change by those who feel on the losing end. Typically they try organised efforts and the political system first, but if that isn’t working for them, we get things like OWS.

    Jarrah

    4 Dec 11 at 4:29 pm

  75. “I am a believer in the old fashioned concept of waging war to win.”

    How would you define ‘winning’ in Afghanistan?

    Jarrah

    4 Dec 11 at 4:30 pm

  76. “I disagree that Australia should leave Afghanistan. I am a believer in the old fashioned concept of waging war to win. ”

    In order to win you need to knock out the paymasters on their own territory. If you are not willing to do that you need to withdraw.

    More generally, once your war-aims are no longer the murder of regime-leadership, you are engaging in mindless violence and need to get out. For Iraq, that came with the capture of Saddam sometime in 2003. We needed to get out after that. With Afghanistan we stopped killing regime leadership in 2002 and needed to come home. Proxy war being sufficient thereafter.

    If Pakistan and Saudi-Arabia are the real paymasters, and we aren’t willing to murder the family Saud, and send them closer to Allah, in a place not far from chop-chop square, then we have to go home. I’m not saying we ought not slaughter half the Sister Sledge, or half the family Saud, and send them closer to Allah, in a place not too far from chop-chop square. I’m saying if we are not willing to do so we have to get out.

    Because the iron law of modern warfare is never to let some behind-the-scenes power, wage proxy war, against your own boys and girls.

    Jupes do you want to murder Pakistani regime leadership? Is that prudent in your view? Jupes are you willing to bend the family Saud to your will? Is that not biting off more than we can chew?

    I think we can safely say that we need to get out. Yes we can still finance non-Pashtuns who are holding out. We can do that. But we cannot be putting our own valuable soldiers in the danger zones.

    Noah

    4 Dec 11 at 4:36 pm

  77. How would you define ‘winning’ in Afghanistan?

    The Taliban and other assorted Jihadists destroyed.

    jupes

    4 Dec 11 at 4:37 pm

  78. The Taliban and other assorted Jihadists destroyed.

    as noah said, as long as you allow the paymasters to not only survivie but be your freinds, this will never happen.

    Boris

    4 Dec 11 at 4:41 pm

  79. Steve wrote:

    there are limits to wealth inequality for a reasonably just and functioning society.

    Why?

    Gab

    4 Dec 11 at 4:43 pm

  80. Yet another classic example of steve’s shameless grand hypocrisies, ignorance and general lack of self-awareness:

    Conservatives need to be realistic, CL
    steve from brisbane 4 Dec 11 at 3:53 pm

    JamesK

    4 Dec 11 at 4:47 pm

  81. “The Taliban and other assorted Jihadists destroyed.”

    Why do you think that’s even possible?

    Jarrah

    4 Dec 11 at 4:49 pm

  82. Jupes do you want to murder Pakistani regime leadership?

    I don’t want to murder anyone. Killing in war is not murder. If we need to wage war on Pakistan to win the war, then I have no problem with targeting their leaders.

    Jupes are you willing to bend the family Saud to your will?

    Sure.

    Is that not biting off more than we can chew?

    Australia, probably. The US, no.

    I think we can safely say that we need to get out.

    We don’t need to get out all. Australian troops are under no military pressure. We can stay there as long as we have the will.

    Yes we can still finance non-Pashtuns who are holding out.

    Do you think you will get value for money? You don’t work for Kruddentrop by any chance do you Noah?

    But we cannot be putting our own valuable soldiers in the danger zones.

    I hate to be the one to tell you this Noah, but it’s part of their job description.

    jupes

    4 Dec 11 at 4:52 pm

  83. Why do you think that’s even possible?

    Because far greater forces have been destroyed with greater weapons parity in previous wars. Remember WW2?

    For a more recent example, how are the Tamil Tigers travelling at the minute?

    jupes

    4 Dec 11 at 4:57 pm

  84. as long as you allow the paymasters to not only survivie but be your freinds, this will never happen.

    I agree.

    jupes

    4 Dec 11 at 5:00 pm

  85. “Because far greater forces have been destroyed with greater weapons parity in previous wars. Remember WW2?”

    It’s not a matter of their greatness of force, but the fact that it’s incredibly difficult to ‘destroy’ ideologies and religions.

    “For a more recent example, how are the Tamil Tigers travelling at the minute?”

    A better example, but still one that can’t be used as an guide in Afghanistan. Besides, even when we ignore all the differences that exist between the two situations, and ignore all the factors that demonstrably make Afghanistan a more intractable problem, resolution of Sri Lanka’s troubles took a brutal three-decade war. That doesn’t sound like something worth doing in Afghanistan.

    Jarrah

    4 Dec 11 at 5:12 pm

  86. It’s not a matter of their greatness of force, but the fact that it’s incredibly difficult to ‘destroy’ ideologies and religions.

    Yet the Cathars and Knights Templar do not exist anymore.

    Look Jarrah some loon might pick a copy of Mein Kampf and go onto being a successful German politician. Does that mean we wasted out time in fighting in the European theatre of operations in WWII?

    .

    4 Dec 11 at 5:16 pm

  87. “Yet the Cathars and Knights Templar do not exist anymore.”

    You do remember what that took, right?

    Jarrah

    4 Dec 11 at 5:20 pm

  88. it’s incredibly difficult to ‘destroy’ ideologies and religions

    How’s the Japanese Emperor worshipping religion travelling at the minute? What about National Socialism?

    …resolution of Sri Lanka’s troubles took a brutal three-decade war.

    Or to be more accurate: It took 23 years of conflict before the Sri Lankans realised they had to change tactics and completely destroy the Tamil Tigers.

    This they achieved in less than three years.

    jupes

    4 Dec 11 at 5:41 pm

  89. Jupes you are not comprehending the problem. Supposing I am the problem. I’m Osama-bin-Goldstein, funded out of the Federal reserve. If you decide to fight within a proscribed boundary, and I’m not in that boundary, you cannot win so long as my funding holds out. You are going in for some phoney street-cred here. Because if I have funding, and am not in your theatre of allowable operations, it matters, not-at-all, how many armies you toss at the problem, I’ll always win.

    Yet if you send a few people to murder me and my coterie, my funding source, and you scare the hell out of those who would renew the funding ….

    ….. then the war is over.

    Its not about military parity. I don’t have to have military parity if you are guaranteeing my personal safety AND my funding source AND those who would renew my funding source. Even if you had the entire Jedi, The Empire itself, and the inter-galactic rebels, you could not EVER win against me under the conditions you are hoping to win against.

    Noah

    4 Dec 11 at 5:42 pm

  90. I’m Osama-bin-Goldstein

    You may have convinced yourself of that, but to us you are still Graeme Bird,

    Gab

    4 Dec 11 at 5:43 pm

  91. “The Taliban and other assorted Jihadists destroyed.”

    Definitions are important. These are meaningless labels. Taliban means they come from the Pashtun tribe and someone is paying them to fight us. Al Quaeda means they are Arabs and someone is paying them to fight us. Jihadists just means they are either fighting us or plotting an attack on civilians.

    So you cannot win until you find that “someone” that I speak thereof, and kill him. Or leave him in fear every day of his life.

    Noah

    4 Dec 11 at 5:45 pm

  92. Hey Noah, nice swastika.

    jumpnmcar

    4 Dec 11 at 5:48 pm

  93. Bird says:

    Jupes you are not comprehending the problem. Supposing I am the problem.

    Oh yes, yes.. 100 times yes.

    JC

    4 Dec 11 at 5:50 pm

  94. “How’s the Japanese Emperor worshipping religion travelling at the minute? What about National Socialism?”

    Considering it took a world war with tens of millions of deaths, I’d say those examples support my claim that it is “incredibly difficult”.

    And if you want to be more accurate about Sri Lanka, then you can’t ignore the profound differences between it and Afghanistan.

    Jarrah

    4 Dec 11 at 5:55 pm

  95. I SEZ

    Jupes do you want to murder Pakistani regime leadership?

    JUPES SEZ:

    I don’t want to murder anyone. Killing in war is not murder.

    SO I SEZ:

    Now you are just being silly. You are not following the argument, and you are going in for sophistry. Your GENERAL argument is sound, and its the argument that the two most accomplished classical scholars in the US have made. But they made this sort of argument, without regard to the problem I have outlined.

    The reality is that wars don’t tend to end until someone wins and someone loses. This is true. Insurgents not supported from the outside are easy to beat. Guerrilla war is overrated.

    The problem comes when people deny that the Guerrillas are supported from the outside. Bonaparte was not in denial that the Spanish were being supported by the English. But despite his lack of delusion in this regard, Bonaparte could not beat Wellington in Spain.

    Because Wellington was supporting the local regular army and insurgents. So unless Bonaparte knocked out, or dissuaded England he was unable to win in Spain. He could not dissuade England by a purely militarily strategy, because England had a totally dominant navy, and it was no close call as to naval dominance.

    So Bonaparte ought to have exited Spain, or waged proxy war in Spain to impose costs on England if he could. But he stayed there too long and allowed England to impose costs upon him. This at a time when he could have destroyed very easily, English ground forces in the field.

    Noah

    4 Dec 11 at 5:59 pm

  96. Well, that’s interesting: the line of “that’s so outrageously unkind to a mammal it must be banned from Youtube” obviously lies somewhere between rat and kitten.

    I have complained before that Youtube had plenty of videos of pet snakes being fed live rats (usually with the sound of Beavis and Butthead style young male sniggering in the background.)

    But I see from Yahoo news that a video of a live kitten being fed to a pet snake has been taken down from Youtube and the RSPCA says the owner should be prosecuted.

    There are some fine lines being drawn here by Youtube.

  97. Considering it took a world war with tens of millions of deaths, I’d say those examples support my claim that it is “incredibly difficult”.

    The Germans were the finest army on earth with up to a point, unlimited resources, discipline, engineering and excellent combined arms operations and the best equipment they could buy. The Heer had 13 million men and officers from 1939 to 1945.

    .

    4 Dec 11 at 6:00 pm

  98. “Hey Noah, nice swastika.”

    Its not any sort of STICKER. Its sewed-on. Sewed-on to my forehead like a blue star.

    Noah

    4 Dec 11 at 6:02 pm

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