Posted by: graemebird | February 21, 2012

The Organic Universe

Here is a short snippet from comments on this forum:

 

Rex Wikinsons law of galaxy motion,
“All galaxies are moving towards their nearest galaxy”
this is the observational data , this is what we see,
not galaxies expanding away from each other, no,
clumping together in big strings or chains , clusters or clumps ……. ”

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Supposing Rex is correct, and though I’m not in the business, I’m already 95% sure that he is right.  What are the implications of this?

 

MORE LATER.

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Responses

  1. Cool. I always like these sneak previews, from the best show on TV.

    On first principles I used to make sure I listened to people like Robert Fisk, Seymour Hersch, and Christopher Hitchens, though these people were leftists, and I was a near-Minarchist, and/or a pessimistic anarcho-capitalist. But I had a sort of hard-core methodology stipulation, that said that you had to listen to credible people who were batting for the other side. In retrospect, I must say, that Hersch became a bit of a (presumably unwitting) mouthpiece for CIA interests. Though from a pure journalistic values point of view he always stayed absolutely solid.

    Now what I like about Max Keiser, is that he’s basically coming from a leftist point of view. Yet he’s financially sophisticated, hates fiat currency, hates unfair rules and cronyism even more, and as time has gone on, he has more and more highlighted the idea that this shithole we are living in is not anything approaching a level playing field. Whereas the powers that be, had us caught in this fucked up dialectic, wherein the status quo was held to be “free enterprise” and then you had this endless fight between free enterprise and socialism. A fucking endless argument cul de sac.

    So Keiser, coming from the left, has broken open that Sisyphusian cycle. As I have done, or tried to do …….. coming from the right. Now Keiser is a successful leftist. Whereas I am (for an whole string of reasons (health and otherwise)) an unsuccessful rightist. But I think this is a good thing, that we come from either end of the spectrum and seem to converge. Because the other thing Keiser is doing is he’s having anti-cronyists to the right of him, and financial sophisticates to the far right of him …. well he’s having them on his show. Its astonishing that he hasn’t been silenced yet. I guess the bursts of hyperbole and humor, and the fact that he’s living outside the United States, has stopped him from getting silenced in some way.

    Anyway, here is the next sneak preview from the best show on television:

  2. Back in May 2006, on my third post, I said the following. But what I want to highlight is the last idea that I tried to put through the convergence test:

    “LETS PUT A FEW BELIEFS THROUGH A BRIEF CONVERGENCE TEST. And lets see how they pan out.

    Evolution: Without convergence you would have nothing. But we can have some rightful certitude about it. Though we cannot have rightful certitude about excluding some alien intervention (ie intelligent design) somewhere along the line. We cannot really have much confidence in any VIEW of evolution..

    The reason we can have some confidence in the general thrust of evolution is that evidence for it converges from all sides and all angles. Any one thing on its own and you would have next to nothing.

    The idea that the Universe is expanding and accelerating in its expansion:

    It fails the convergence test. We can have scant rightfull certitude about this since the theory leans on the theory of red shift almost exclusively. What they ought to do is map out all the stars that they can get independent evidence for before they jump to the conclusion of how far that star is away and how fast it is moving. This is a very sloppy effort from those science workers.

    The existence of the historical Jesus:

    At first blush this is open to question. Since outside the movement there is only Josephus as an independent source. I would say we would have near certitude but not total certitude. However this is one case where recognising that convergence is the only source and ultimate test of rightful certitude could inspire some effort to clear up all doubt. Or to conclude that some doubt will likely always remain.”

    That is where I thought the question of the historical existence of Jesus, would stay. I didn’t imagine that this question would be resolved. It really does look like now, that this question HAS been resolved. It appears that we can be almost totally confidence that Jesus Christ is an wholly fictional character. It seems that the Gospels were a full-blown creation of the Flavian Roman propaganda machine.

    I don’t find this a happy revelation. I’ve become quite a fan and well-wisher of the Christian religion. But nonetheless, he does appear to be entirely made-up.

  3. Bird
    where have you been?

    Australia needs you more than ever

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3849006.html

  4. Glad to oblige. But its only a small attempt. Australia can wait. Problems in the house. I’ve left this one with the moderators:

    “Isn’t it about time you listened to Michael Jackson, and started with the “Man In The Mirror” Clive?

    But make sure its not one of those suntanning mirrors, because those hypocritical eyes of yours, would be “Blinded By The Light.””

  5. Here’s another effort that the moderators are sitting on:

    “Confused? Well, that’s not surprising. But all was revealed when Clive Hamilton was interviewed by Caroline Jones on the ABC Radio program The Search for Meaning on 27 February 1994. Clive told Caroline that he was much influenced by the philosopher Carl Jung. So much so that he has an OTHER SELF – whom, it turns out, is a bloke called Jacob. We all know that Clive is a real luvvie and a good bloke. Not so Jacob. Clive told Caroline that Jacob is a foul-mouthed murderer and an abuser of women. However, it seems that Clive and his OTHER SELF (aka Jacob) have reached an accommodation.”

    I would have thought this was all rather “old news”.

  6. I was around near your place on the 14th Jason. I had a shot at emailing you. I had gotten the drizzling shits with my beloved girls. So I was hoping to drop around with a few long tall cold ones. First time we’ve had a big blowup in about five years. But it was pretty serious.

    • Hey Graeme
      I don’t live in Surry Hills anymore. But if you do feel like drinks sometime do go ahead and email me at the catallaxy AT yahoo com address or my gmail one

      • Are you able to give me a general idea of where you could be found? I was quite happy waiting for the girls friends to show up in the house Now I might have to get out a bit, just to get some fresh air.

      • Seriously. Its amazing how contented I was. My lovely wife. My wonderful stepdaughter. And the latter always bringing around all this Thai-Eye-Candy. Why would I ever want to leave the house? What would be the point of socializing with mere blogsters and intellectuals?

        Stunning how things can go bad very quickly.

      • Sorry to hear all that, man.
        I’m in Rhodes now. And I don’t work from home anymore. If you emailed my NECG address that no longer works.
        Best to use gmail or yahoo can have drinks after work in the city if you like

  7. It seems to me Clive, that I asked you for evidence for your jive, some time ago. AND I have the return email to prove it. So how about ponying some of this evidence up?

    There is a reflection of a clock, coming off your head, and that clock is ticking, and we still don’t have your answer. Now we’ve gone over this before. Do I have to describe PRECISELY what is needed ………… all over again?

    Perhaps I could get an answer from this Jacob entity, that you have reached an accommodation with? If I cannot meet with you to get answers, could I meet “Jacob”? You could give me the time, place and date, when this “Jacob” was going to ………. emerge. And we could wait for that time, and we could go to that place, and we could discuss it.

  8. Heh Graeme.

    I went through a Jung phase. It was kinda interesting. And it is used today in corporate setting ffs e.g. the Myers-Briggs program of personality types and how to recognise them in the workplace.

  9. When someone asks what there is to do,
    light the candle in his hand.
    Like this.

    How did Joseph’s scent come to Jacob?
    Huuuuu.

    How did Jacob’s sight return?
    Huuuu.

    A little wind cleans the eyes.
    Like this.

    Rumi

  10. Right. Some folks may have stronger Jung phases than others. Clives Jung phase appears to have gone right to blazing dome.

  11. Wonderful. All three Clive posts have been successfully posted to your (YOUR) A Bloody-BC.

  12. If he’s saying that he has multiple personalities, well that is true. Lots and lots of sub-personalities, and no, that doesn’t mean being evil or ill or mad.

    Everyone has multiple personalities. It’s diversity which exists in all of nature expressed in our selves. Knowing that and understanding it, is a pretty big mental gift towards real sanity, I reckon or the closest any of us will ever get to such a chimera.

  13. Right. I have two sub-personalities. There is a Mr Hyde, and a Dr Hyde.

  14. Right. You’re getting the idea. This is called learning.

  15. I think you’ve got more sub-personalities than a lot of people. But then how can one know that. Just by the way people express themselves and the way they don’t or can’t.

    Jung’s Autobiography is the thing to read. It’s mesmering.

  16. “As a child I felt myself to be alone, and I am still, because I know things and must hint at things which others apparently know nothing of, and for the most part do not want to know. Loneliness does not come from having no people about one, but from being unable to communicate the things that seem important to oneself, or from holding certain views which others find inadmissible. The loneliness began with the experiences of my early dreams, and reached its climax at the time at the time when I was working on the unconscious.

    If a man knows more than others, he becomes lonely. But loneliness is not necessarily inimical to companionship, for no one is more sensitive to companionship than the lonely person, and companionship thrives only when each individual remembers his individuality and does not identify himself with others.

    I have had much trouble in living with my ideas. There was a daemon in me, and in the end its presence proved decisive; it overpowered me. I could never stop at anything once attained. I had to hasten on, to catch up with my vision. Since my contemparies, understandably, could not perceive my vision, they saw only a fool rushing ahead.

    I have offended many people, for as soon as I saw that they did not understand me, that was the end of the matter so far as I was concerned: I had to move on. I had no patience with people. I had to obey an inner law which was imposed on me and left me no freedom of choice. Of course, I did not always obey it. How can anyone live without inconsistency?

    For some people I was continually present and close to them so long as they were related to my inner world; but then it might happen that I was no longer with them, because there was nothing left which would link me to them. I had to learn painfully that people continued to exist even when they had nothing more to say to me. Many excited in me a feeling of living humanity, but only when they appeared within the magic circle of psychology; next moment, when the spotlight cast its beam elsewhere, there was nothing to be seen. I was able to become intensely interested in people; but as soon as I had seen through them, the magic was gone. In this way I made many enemies.

    A creative person has little power over his own life. He is not free. He is captive and driven by his daemon. Perhaps I might say: I need people to a higher degree than others, and at the same time much less.

    I am astonished, disappointed, pleased with myself. I am distressed, depressed, rapturous. I am all these things at once, and cannot add up the sum. I am incapable of determining ultimate worth or worthlessness; I have no judgment about myself and my life. There is nothing I am quite sure about. I have no definite convictions – not about anything, really. I only know that I was born and exist, and it seems to me that I have been carried along. I exist on the foundation of something I do not know. In spite of all uncertainties, I feel solidity underlying all existence and continuity in my mode of being.

    When Lao-tzu says: “All are clear, I alone am clouded,” he is expressing what I now feel in advanced old age. Lao-tzu is the example of a man with superior insight who has seen and experienced worth and worthlessness, and who at the end of his life desires to return into his own being, into the eternal unknowable meaning.

    Extract from “Memories, Dreams and Reflections” by Carl Jung

  17. Now that I’m not living as much of a blissful home-life, I suspect I’ll develop all these extra special friends in my own head, if Jung is correct.

    In any case, here is the latest issue of the best show on TV:

  18. Did you like the extract?

  19. Yeah. But he’s talking about a past self right? And in my case it may be that its a past self, that would more identify with what he’s talking about. With me its not so much navel-gazing right now. Its more to do with thinking about how family dynamics can explode so horribly, and wondering if there is a way to patch things up better than before.

  20. Heh. I told you about this b4 I’m sure. I worked with a Russian (actually Ukranian) potymath who was working as an IT wizard, though she was just as proficient in linguistics, psychology, literature etc or rather they are her primary interests. Anyways she hated her very well paid job and did some dodge 3-month course in Sydney which gave her psychological techniques some of which she practised on me, with a view to opening her own business, in her own flat, in Bondi Junction. You get the pic. However, one of these techniques was a revelation. She asked me to tell her what I wanted to know about myself that I didn’t understand. I told her. And then she did the drill. Sat in a chair opposite and asked who was the best person to be able to answer that question. Someone answered. It was me, but it was a six year old me and I knew that person or subpersonality very well.. I explained very well and answered the question to my satisfaction. It was eye opening.

  21. Wow. Yes that is very interesting. I would find that if I was with one or two people (particularly a childhood friend, and my next oldest brother) and if I drunk too much, I could descend into being a real sissy. Like problems that hadn’t bothered me in many years, and they’d bug me all over again. Whereas if I had been drinking with anyone else there wouldn’t be this effect. I don’t think it was the whole hog, of having to deal with a younger self. More like being thrown into a now defunct sub-routine. But then I don’t have a good idea of what ought to be the lead paradigm on this sort of stuff.

  22. I don’t find it that hard to understand once it is explained.

    All sorts of contexts, conditions, influences and processes go into the creation of even a transitory thought. Which is by necessity completely unique.

    How good is that.

    Which is not to say there aren’t patterns.

  23. Right. This may be the key to consciousness. All this overlay.

  24. Hey Philomena? Have you checked out Joseph Atwill? It really seems he’s cracked the historical Jesus mystery. Others before him have had this theory. I suspect that many of them have ended up dead. Even before checking source material, it sounds like a fully proven thing.

  25. Graeme, what are your views on the Crystal Skulls and 2012?

  26. I don’t know about crystal skulls. If you could show they went back say 13,000 years, you could put that as more evidence for the coastal high civilisation prior to the quarternary extinction. But how can you date crystals? How can you determine they aren’t more modern contrivances? So even if the evidence of their antiquity was pretty good, still it probably wouldn’t overmatch my convergence threshold for this sort of thing.

    At first I thought that there was something in this 2012 situation. I thought the evidence was weak, but I couldn’t at first discount it entirely, like I was able to eventually for the total idiocy of the global warming scam.

    But after looking at it, I found something very strange; There were many valid things about the topic, but the one thing that wasn’t valid was the name of the topic. Many people make many valid points relating to the “2012” concept. But none of the more valid points have any damn thing to do with the year of our Lord 2012. So to me it looks like a clever setup. By packaging both valid and bogus science under the name of a year ……. the chances of a major catastrophe in that specific year being very very remote …….. well its a pretty damn effective way to make fun of that part of the science that is valid.

  27. Eric I’ll go further than that. There are two basic catastrophes we have to look out for, and each of them can cause problems including a coronal mass ejection. It was 2003 I believe, that was the last time, we had a coronal mass ejection strong enough, to short out our electrical networks …. were it aimed directly at us. But it shot out in a direction which left us barely able to witness it from earth.

    A coronal mass ejection that will take down much of a grid isn’t a risk, so much as a certainty and we have to prepare for this with surge protection.

    But the two main sources of truly massive catastrophes, are

    1. shockwaves coming out of nearby supernovae ….. Or directly from out of the galactic centre.

    2. The effects of a massive planet-sized comet, coming out of deep space. Now we have had a couple of comets that were big enough to call us grief, but they didn’t effect earth all that much as it turned out.

    Note that in both of these cases there is no way to date them at all. If a comet is big enough to give us trouble its one of “the lawless ones” and its tail drag complicates its orbit so much as to make its timing impossible to predict. Plus presumably we would know about it maybe a couple of years in advance.

    And with a galactic centre shockwave we cannot have any warning at all. Because the shockwave starts out faster than the speed of light, and then settles down to the speed of light. Therefore the catastrophe that the shockwave causes, gets here prior to us being able to see what caused the shockwave. Hence we can have no way of linking a future shockwave to the year 2012. There will be several shockwaves heading our way as we speak. But there simply isn’t a way to date their arrival.

    • You have proof of this right?

      You’re not doing a Flannery end run here and trying to scare people.

      lets see the evidence, fella.

      • Sure. Not difficult to find. If you look at large supernovae, in world history, that were visible with the naked eye, we find that all of them, came from the exact same shockwave, that caused the Vela supernova. So a single impulse can burst a number of stars, and presumably planets. That VELA-CYCLE ran itself out about 500 years ago. So we would be expecting another hit from the centre, followed by secondary hits coming from various supernovae that the first hit set off.

        In other words we expect something akin to a new Vela-cycle.

      • Bear in mind that there has never ever ever ever been the slightest indication that c represents some sort of top velocity. Nor could such a terminal speed limit be plausible. Since velocity is a relative concept. The Einstein theory is purist irrationality.

  28. More conservatives like CL need to be catching onto this reality:

    “The United States is an increasingly fascist country. I’ve theorised before that it was the fetishisation of the disciplined services following 9/11 that increased this sort of swaggering, institutionalised thuggery. They think they’re soldiers and the public is the enemy.”

    Yeah well good stuff. Before I sorted out with certainty that 9/11 was a (stand down) false flag (denial and deception) operation, I used to point out that I understood why George Bush the younger had acted as he did, but that it had been a mostly mistaken way of behaving nonetheless. Because these long wars, all these debts, and this monetary expansion ………. these things are corrosive of all the values that stop a society from sliding into wickedness and dishonour.

  29. Eric I can say a little bit more about this. Paul Laviolette, for reasons I cannot verify, says that we are overdue for a major galactic centre shockwave. Being overdue, he predicts that there is a 90% chance of such a shockwave in the next 400 years. I would say that we presumably ought front-end-load this call. Water filters, freeze-dried food, cash-on-hand, silver coins, generators …. these are all social insurance if in the hands of righteous men.

    Looking at the other problem, the worst comet seems to have become Venus. Well that puts one big bastard out of contention. Lovejoy and Halle-Bop have already come and gone and we were lucky with them. I see no particular reason to worry too much about a big one coming soon, yet still we have to understand when Neptune can dip-to-the-south during its orbit. One point is that the sort of minimal preparations we ought be making for these potential problems are the same as preparations we would make for (a) naval encirclement (b)An “emp” coming from a nuclear weapon burst overhead (c) a societal breakdown caused by many reasons ….. and so forth.

    Always one of the first things we buy is a water filter. So it really doesn’t matter your scientific take on this. Sooner or later one ought to start making a small investment in the generic things one needs in emergencies. The water filter coming first in all cases.

  30. “Zero tax for manufacturing. 100% depreciation allowances for equipment bought in the first year. Corporate tax down to 17%.”

    Santorum is a statist nutjob. But this is good policy. Strategically differential tax is fine, and to think otherwise is to imagine that we are coming from reasonable policy history. The pro-manufacturing bias can head off both a scary deindustrialisation decades in the making AND a ghastly resurgence of
    protectionism.

  31. Hey Bird:

    What’s your take on Stephen Hawking?

  32. Stephen Hawking could not be more irrelevant. His theories have nothing to do with the real world. He’s basically a theologian. Not a scientist. Furthermore, there is no independent verification that its him saying all the jive he says. If you want a plausible understanding of the universe, then you ought remember the signs you see in some jurisdictions “No Hawking.” (taken from a Gaede gag).

    On a more positive topic, silver seems to be rallying quite nicely today.

  33. Grame, thanks for that reference.

    All sorts of theories about Jesus. I like the theory that he was a real historical figure, a Galilean and was possibly the mouthpiece for a Galilean revolutionary party.

    Q: If Jesus was a carpenter why was he held in such respect and why did he appear never to have had a job?

    • This is a subject that I did quite a lot of reading on prior to the advent of the internet. I’d be reading John Dominic Crossan and other analysts. I was particularly impressed by the research of an un-credentialed Australian, who reckoned that Jesus’ real name was basically Joshua. Or at least more akin to “Yeshua” Joshua itself being an slightly anglo rendering. Well I don’t know about that, but I enjoyed his analysis anyhow. So I’m not coming into this totally green. And so despite the very clever methodology of the “historical Jesus” crowd, I think that the Atwill idea appears to be more solid.

      • Check out Elhanen Reiner of Tel Aviv uni. In the late 1990s he came across some ancient commentaries on the Old Testament dating back to 200BC which contained references to a Galilean figure of the that date called Joshua. And in Galilee “Jesus” was a common corruption of “Joshua” and the narrative of Joshua had many parallels with that of Jesus i.e. he had 12 elders working with him, he died in similar circumstances and on the same religious calendar date, the closest people to him were called Joseph and Mary, there was a Judas who played a treacherous role, and other similarities.

      • Part of the Roman propaganda technique, according to Atwill, is to take and co-opt the history of all these anti-Roman radicals. So this is what might be going on there.

  34. grr, Graeme

  35. My spam filter keeps on dumping on me. So I’m assuming that its done it to you. I’ll check it out.

  36. Galilee was socially and politically different from Judaea. It was mainly a rural area settled by peasants but it was rich from the export of…OLIVE OIL.
    It’s larger cities were Hellenised and at the time of Jesus it had become Jewish only fairly recently. It was also home to “terrorists” e.g. Ezekias and his son Judas who with Zadok, a Pharisee, founded the Zealots, a politco-religious party that advocated no taxes and called for political and economic independence from external overlords. Their descendants led the revolt at Masada. btw I saw recently an old 4-hour movie “Masada” with Peter O’Toole which was damn good.

    • Bit of a shame we couldn’t be feeding such people firearms.

  37. From elsewhere:

    The way I figure it stars are simply an extension of planets. I think you go from comet, to rocky moon-or planet, to gas giant, and onto being a star. Iron having the most stable nucleus, and iron being fairly heavy, its only natural to expect that stars, planets and moons, will all have iron at their core. They say that the sun is made of hydrogen. I think they are just being silly. How can you look at the outer atmosphere and fantasize that the rest is like that? I find it astonishingly silly that someone can look at the sun, and interpolate that its all hydrogen.

  38. The carpenter conundrum has been explained thusly. The Aramaic word for carpenter or craftsman – “naggar” – also stands for “scholar” or “learned person” an so this may account for the extraordinary respect Jesus was held in from the start and his apparent joblessness.

  39. Right.

  40. Well, it’s just a theory. No one knows about Jesus’s work history as a carpenter probably for the same reason most people’s working lives remain unrecorded except by the likes of William Faulkner, Charles Dickens, Studs Terkel and, nearer to home, the magnificent Dorothy Hewett.

  41. Anyway, like you and me, he was no ordinary worker.

    “To a friend whose work has come to triumph” (by Anne Sexton)

    Consider Icarus, pasting those sticky wings on,
    testing this strange little tug at his shoulder blade,
    and think of that first flawless moment over the lawn
    of the labyrinth. Think of the difference it made!

    There below are the trees, as awkward as camels;
    and here are the shocked starlings pumping past
    and think of innocent Icarus who is doing quite well:
    larger than a sail, over the fog and the blast
    of the plushy ocean, he goes. Admire his wings!

    Feel the fire at his neck and see how casually
    he glances up and is caught, wondrously tunneling
    into that hot eye. Who cares that he fell back to the
    sea?

    See him acclaiming the sun and come plunging down
    while his sensible daddy goes straight into town.

  42. This blob has jumped the shark.

    • I thnk you should apologise or leave. I am particulatrly interested in Graeme’s views on the Organic Universe and plate tectonics. Also physics.u

  43. In what way dummy? I thought it had ground to a near halt, on account of me being too busy.


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